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Which is worse on game creators: buying a used game or illegally pirating a game

#421Devilman_AmonPosted 11/11/2012 8:26:39 PM
Gigahart_gaylor posted...
And if you say used is better because the used copy was originally bought new, that's the case regardless of if somebody buys the used copy or it stays on the shelves forever.


no it's not.

It means:


1.Someone bought the game already (and in a lot of cases new so the developer got paid already)

2.The game was bad. So it didn't sell.

3.The game was mediocre in sales so the store didn't restock.
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#422Jinzo 111887Posted 11/11/2012 8:30:41 PM(edited)
From: Asellus | Posted: 11/11/2012 10:24:42 PM
But game data is a digital thing, unlike say a used car it doesn't degrade (barring say an abused disc but Gamestop'll trade you if you wind up with one of those no problems so non-issue). A used copy is functionally identical to a new copy barring perhaps some of the steps devs have taken to lately to try and make the new copy superior (one-time use online passes or dlc codes included with the new copy, say).

And they couldn't have don't what Nintendo and GOG do and offer a real treat outside of the game instead of withhold stuff from it as bargaining chips/tools for blackmail? Personally, I see withholding stuff programmed into the game to use as a bargaining chip as a sign the company believes their game sucks, while the stuff one can get from GOG is more like VIP treatment since it's outside of the game.
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I miss the Golden Age of gaming that died in the last few years. Yeah, we got better graphics, but it's not worth recent changes if you ask me.
#423amonte64Posted 11/11/2012 8:28:45 PM
LMAO, some gamers are still on this? are you serious? it's such a shame how some gamers are one of the dumbest consumers.

It is just common sense that illegal pirating is worse and is actually bad. "Used game sales" which actually includes trading games, borrowing games and giving away games is not something that is bad at all, it's something that is normal and okay.

All these companies that say it's bad is all just propaganda to try and get the gamers that think they can't live without video games to think it's actually bad so greedy, anti consumer practices can be implemented. It's all just companies trying to make as much money as possible, even if it's dirty, greedy or ripping off the consumer and they're just taking advantage of those gamers.

Used game sales isn't going to kill anything. Overprices, dirty, greedy, anti consumer practices are. Realize this. For example, companies that do greedy practices are doing bad and looking to sell but companies that don't are striving.
#424AsellusPosted 11/11/2012 8:33:16 PM
(Only reason Steam works well is they have huge discounts on games during sales.)

There was an interesting article on that awhile back, took a moment to dig it up here-

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/174587/Steam_sales_How_deep_discounts_really_affect_your_games.php#.UKBsp4b4SsA

One quote from it,

"Runic Games CEO Max Schaefer, for instance, tells us that while it's been almost three years since his studio launched Torchlight, Valve's Steam promotions have helped the game maintain healthy sales to this very day.

"We find that we get several thousand percent increases in units and revenue on the days of the Steam sales, and unit sales are usually about double the normal for a few weeks after the sales are over," he says.

This year's Summer Sale (which ended July 22) was particularly noteworthy for Runic, as it helped Torchlight hit its second biggest day ever in terms of overall unit sales -- not bad for a game that came out in October 2009. "


Yes, it's still selling strong three years after its release on pc - remember that bit where Rockstar was complaining about their sales starting to dry up at the six week mark?
#425amonte64Posted 11/11/2012 8:42:27 PM
Asellus posted...
(Only reason Steam works well is they have huge discounts on games during sales.)

There was an interesting article on that awhile back, took a moment to dig it up here-

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/174587/Steam_sales_How_deep_discounts_really_affect_your_games.php#.UKBsp4b4SsA

One quote from it,

"Runic Games CEO Max Schaefer, for instance, tells us that while it's been almost three years since his studio launched Torchlight, Valve's Steam promotions have helped the game maintain healthy sales to this very day.

"We find that we get several thousand percent increases in units and revenue on the days of the Steam sales, and unit sales are usually about double the normal for a few weeks after the sales are over," he says.

This year's Summer Sale (which ended July 22) was particularly noteworthy for Runic, as it helped Torchlight hit its second biggest day ever in terms of overall unit sales -- not bad for a game that came out in October 2009. "


Yes, it's still selling strong three years after its release on pc - remember that bit where Rockstar was complaining about their sales starting to dry up at the six week mark?


Exactly! It's greedy, anti consumer practices that is bad for companies and not only companies but video games as a whole and of course consumers. How about stop overpricing everything video games? $60 is overpriced for video games, if you don't believe me see for yourself, see the average it costs to make games, the average games sale and than do the match of the game costing $60 and the distribution costs and you will see. If games were cheaper so many more copies would sale, not only that but more of other games would also be bought because now less is being spent on a game. on top of that, less people would sale their games because it didn't cost them much to buy it and games don't cost much so they don't need to sale their older games to purchase new ones. For example, I don't spend more than $30 on a video game and of course I still play all the games I want and everything. Having sales and deals are also great.
#426Jinzo 111887Posted 11/11/2012 8:47:52 PM(edited)
From: Asellus | Posted: 11/11/2012 10:33:16 PM
(Only reason Steam works well is they have huge discounts on games during sales.)

There was an interesting article on that awhile back, took a moment to dig it up here-

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/174587/Steam_sales_How_deep_discounts_really_affect_your_games.php#.UKBsp4b4SsA

One quote from it,

"Runic Games CEO Max Schaefer, for instance, tells us that while it's been almost three years since his studio launched Torchlight, Valve's Steam promotions have helped the game maintain healthy sales to this very day.

"We find that we get several thousand percent increases in units and revenue on the days of the Steam sales, and unit sales are usually about double the normal for a few weeks after the sales are over," he says.

This year's Summer Sale (which ended July 22) was particularly noteworthy for Runic, as it helped Torchlight hit its second biggest day ever in terms of overall unit sales -- not bad for a game that came out in October 2009. "


Yes, it's still selling strong three years after its release on pc - remember that bit where Rockstar was complaining about their sales starting to dry up at the six week mark?


Case and point. Unfortunately, we won't see those kinds of sales on consoles very often on consoles because of lack of competition. (I'd actually like to see GOG become an alternative place to buy games I can play on Sony's systems so I can buy from GOG over Sony to make a point about who's got the better business practices.)

From: amonte64 | Posted: 11/11/2012 10:42:27 PM
Exactly! It's greedy, anti consumer practices that is bad for companies and not only companies but video games as a whole and of course consumers. How about stop overpricing everything video games? $60 is overpriced for video games, if you don't believe me see for yourself, see the average it costs to make games, the average games sale and than do the match of the game costing $60 and the distribution costs and you will see. If games were cheaper so many more copies would sale, not only that but more of other games would also be bought because now less is being spent on a game. on top of that, less people would sale their games because it didn't cost them much to buy it and games don't cost much so they don't need to sale their older games to purchase new ones. For example, I don't spend more than $30 on a video game and of course I still play all the games I want and everything. Having sales and deals are also great.

Combine Steam's discounts with GOG's strategy of throwing DRM in the incinerator and putting bonus content on display for a strategy that's very hard to resist.
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#427Devilman_AmonPosted 11/11/2012 8:45:25 PM
Jinzo 111887 posted...
From: Asellus | Posted: 11/11/2012 10:24:42 PM
But game data is a digital thing, unlike say a used car it doesn't degrade (barring say an abused disc but Gamestop'll trade you if you wind up with one of those no problems so non-issue). A used copy is functionally identical to a new copy barring perhaps some of the steps devs have taken to lately to try and make the new copy superior (one-time use online passes or dlc codes included with the new copy, say).

And they couldn't have don't what Nintendo and GOG do and offer a real treat outside of the game instead of withhold stuff from it as bargaining chips/tools for blackmail? Personally, I see withholding stuff programmed into the game to use as a bargaining chip as a sign the company believes their game sucks, while the stuff one can get from GOG is more like VIP treatment since it's outside of the game.


Exactly. One of the bad changes to happen this gen
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#428shawnmckPosted 11/11/2012 8:49:20 PM
Asellus posted...
You cannot say that its bad for video-games to be sold as used, but then not care about used cars, & everything else sold, traded, or rented as used.

But game data is a digital thing, unlike say a used car it doesn't degrade (barring say an abused disc but Gamestop'll trade you if you wind up with one of those no problems so non-issue). A used copy is functionally identical to a new copy barring perhaps some of the steps devs have taken to lately to try and make the new copy superior (one-time use online passes or dlc codes included with the new copy, say).


^ What are you talking about ?

A video game is as much of a product as a book, a movie, or even a car.
Some company paid to develop & produce it, and they were all sent to their respective middle-men to sell (car dealerships, video places, store shelves, etc).
But after purchased said product wasn't liked or was re-sold for the money value that it contained.

Whether it is in digital form or print form or physical form is irrelevant.

BTW
You don't hear about the movie industry complaining about video-rental places or any of the countless Redbox or Blockbuster machines, or even Netflix....do you ?
And movies can cost a lot more to make than a video game, although sometimes they are about the same.

Used video-game sales are blown way out of proportion.
What is always overlooked is the quality of the vast majority of the used games being traded in & resold...and most of time the quality is POOP !
Have you even gone into a gamestop & browsed their shelves..?
The vast majority of their games are the junk that most people wouldn't even buy new, let alone used.

And what about all those games at the retail stores like Wal-Mart, Best-Buy, and so on...
You know, the ones that launched at $60, but eventually get discounted to $20...because nobody wants them.
You think that isn't hurting developers too ?

Crappy games just don't sell....the issue isn't with used games, but of lack of quality &/or substance.
When you buy a game that you really like, you tend to keep it. If you buy a game that you think sucks and was a waste of money then if you were smart then you would try to re-sell it.
What's the problem ?
Gamestop comes along and makes a business out of it and all of a sudden its a crime.
#429Devilman_AmonPosted 11/11/2012 8:54:06 PM
Everything you said was on point except for this:


BTW
You don't hear about the movie industry complaining about video-rental places or any of the countless Redbox or Blockbuster machines, or even Netflix....do you ?
And movies can cost a lot more to make than a video game, although sometimes they are about the same.


The movie industry does make money on video-rental places and those Redbox, and Netflix. They get a sizable cut. Sometimes the movie makes even MORE on rentals than they did at the box office and thats sometimes how they are able to make their investment back. Remember, some movies go direct to video/direct to rental.
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#430amonte64Posted 11/11/2012 9:16:10 PM
shawnmck posted...
Asellus posted...
You cannot say that its bad for video-games to be sold as used, but then not care about used cars, & everything else sold, traded, or rented as used.

But game data is a digital thing, unlike say a used car it doesn't degrade (barring say an abused disc but Gamestop'll trade you if you wind up with one of those no problems so non-issue). A used copy is functionally identical to a new copy barring perhaps some of the steps devs have taken to lately to try and make the new copy superior (one-time use online passes or dlc codes included with the new copy, say).





Crappy games just don't sell....the issue isn't with used games, but of lack of quality &/or substance.
When you buy a game that you really like, you tend to keep it. If you buy a game that you think sucks and was a waste of money then if you were smart then you would try to re-sell it.
What's the problem ?
Gamestop comes along and makes a business out of it and all of a sudden its a crime.


This.