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Sony admits online pass is greedy and anti-consumer

#61Jinzo 111887Posted 11/21/2012 10:14:37 PM(edited)
From: king_madden | Posted: 11/21/2012 11:40:01 PM
3.) dont know why you would assume I was talking about being a child when I have stated numerous times how easy it is UNLESS you were a child. as for your dilemma, thats something thats their personal problem, what if the roommate doesnt want him to take the game? you are thinking of every negative hypothetical just to support your argument, thats why i dismissed hypothetical in the beginning, anything can be turned negative if you sit back and think of it all day.

4.)even still none of these problems are going to be something the devs care about, why would they want to support players who didnt even buy their game? if someone wants to test it they can rent it and try the online out in most cases.

5.) consumers are going to complain that everything is hurting the gaming community, from graphics, to greedy companies, to dlc, to blah blah blah. its going to be something all the time. people who buy online passes dont mind, and thats their choice, you arent forced to buy it.

6.)you keep speaking for personal opinion. there isnt one game out right now that everyone likes, you arent going to appeal to everyone. devs get a vision and go with it, its up to the consumer whether or not they like it. what you say is "worth" it or not is just YOUR opinion. I might find a game awesome while the next person thinks its trash, so whos right? if devs have a million people that love it and a million people that hate it, what do they do then? is that a success?


3.) I was a child during the SNES/Genesis era, but I'm thinking of respect for everyone who uses the console. That's the problem with multimedia devices. More people use them in a household than an average console. If it was just for games, this wouldn't be as big of a problem. Also, don't bring up the Wii. The use of motion control was what made it different.

4.)I can understand them not liking it, but it's better than them pirating and hacking the game and getting all the DLC for free like what SFxT hackers did. The least they can do is show these people some respect. Besides, at least with used games, they made some cash from the disc already. If everyone (new and used game buyers) pirated the games and addon content instead, they'd have almost nothing.

5.)And I won't, even though I would have bough new otherwise. I wonder how many new sales they are losing from offended consumers like myself by chasing after used game sales. Heck, they might be losing some from people who are buying used out of spite. Heck, there are probably people waiting for price drops who would have bought day 1 if it weren't for those things. More possible ways they are losing money.

6.)Indeed, there is no way to get everyone. Of course, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be thankful for what they can get. As I pointed out, at least with used games, they got something from the start, which is better than the nothing they could have gotten if everyone had pirated the games. (That's the difference between used and piracy. They already got paid, but the used game is just trying to find a more permanent home. Pirated games are the illegally distributed stuff that result in more games existing than they had planned/gotten paid for. It's the 1:1 ratio. A single disc can only be in one place at a time.)

If they feel like they aren't earning enough, they should work on a budget. I mean, it's possible to produce good games without a massive budget. SCP Containment Breach is an indie horror game that seems like it could rival some of the stuff other companies are releasing, and it seems like they are working with a budget and help from fans.
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#62king_maddenPosted 11/22/2012 9:44:15 AM
3.)not sure why I would bring up the wii, this discussion was about a guy who couldnt play online at his friends house because it was tied to his account. again the hypotheticals that you continue with arent worth discussing mainly because you can come up with 9320423 different negative possibilities with anything, no company can solve 100% of the problems consumers have.

4.) what are you saying? that devs should "respect" people who dont support them, because they might pirate their game? yea thats gonna get you far. people are going to pirate regardless, when a company does something they dont like they use it as an excuse, but its going to happen regardless. steam offers games for super cheap yet A LOT of people pirate pc games.

5.) ok well thats on you, people who want a game new will buy it new, people who dont wont. the number of people not playing games because of an online pass is a small minority, they are just hurting themselves for missing out on a game they supposedly wanted. you can name a bunch of "possible" ways they are losing money but they are also gaining money from people who are buying used passes. even if its a price drop, its still a new purchase.

6.) again people will pirate regardless, most people prefer not to for obvious reasons as far as being banned and the other drawbacks of a console ban. also not to mention its not as easy as pirating on the pc, so a lot of people dont have access to it, unless they really go out and look for it. that whole "at least they got money for the used game" argument is always a poor one. if you made something and had to reach a quota but you fall short, should you just be happy you made some money, even though you wont get the funds you couldve received? big businesses should be about making as much money as possible, not just making enough to get by, and then saying "welp we made enough", in this economy you cant be satisfied with a certain amount.

7.) yes it may be possible to make games without spending a lot, and just about every dev has made a game that doesnt cost a lot, but sometimes you have a bigger vision, and you want something thats going to be huge, sure some cheap games sell a lot but they also dont sell for much, and are also pirated. a blockbuster big title can make you more than a blockbuster small title. also that containment breach could only rival another cheaply made game, doesnt look overly impressive, and looks cheap.
#63jubjub360Posted 11/22/2012 9:48:04 AM
I love numbers too guys.
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#64Jinzo 111887Posted 11/22/2012 6:35:08 PM
From: king_madden | Posted: 11/22/2012 12:44:15 PM
3.)not sure why I would bring up the wii, this discussion was about a guy who couldnt play online at his friends house because it was tied to his account. again the hypotheticals that you continue with arent worth discussing mainly because you can come up with 9320423 different negative possibilities with anything, no company can solve 100% of the problems consumers have.
4.) what are you saying? that devs should "respect" people who dont support them, because they might pirate their game? yea thats gonna get you far. people are going to pirate regardless, when a company does something they dont like they use it as an excuse, but its going to happen regardless. steam offers games for super cheap yet A LOT of people pirate pc games.
5.) ok well thats on you, people who want a game new will buy it new, people who dont wont. the number of people not playing games because of an online pass is a small minority, they are just hurting themselves for missing out on a game they supposedly wanted. you can name a bunch of "possible" ways they are losing money but they are also gaining money from people who are buying used passes. even if its a price drop, its still a new purchase.
6.) again people will pirate regardless, most people prefer not to for obvious reasons as far as being banned and the other drawbacks of a console ban. also not to mention its not as easy as pirating on the pc, so a lot of people dont have access to it, unless they really go out and look for it. that whole "at least they got money for the used game" argument is always a poor one. if you made something and had to reach a quota but you fall short, should you just be happy you made some money, even though you wont get the funds you couldve received? big businesses should be about making as much money as possible, not just making enough to get by, and then saying "welp we made enough", in this economy you cant be satisfied with a certain amount.
7.) yes it may be possible to make games without spending a lot, and just about every dev has made a game that doesnt cost a lot, but sometimes you have a bigger vision, and you want something thats going to be huge, sure some cheap games sell a lot but they also dont sell for much, and are also pirated. a blockbuster big title can make you more than a blockbuster small title. also that containment breach could only rival another cheaply made game, doesnt look overly impressive, and looks cheap.

3.)I'm able to see things from multiple angles. I know companies want to earn more money, but I don't believe online passes really count as earning it.
4.)But do they want to push more people towards pirating their games and hacking the DLC to get it for free? I know it might not be the best thing for them, but they should thankful for what they can get. I mean, I didn't get everything I wanted when I was growing, but I was thankful for what I had. If they can't play online because of the pass anyway, that's just one less thing they have to loose.
5.)Ill gotten gains. They aren't earning it so much as leeching it from another source, which they believe the other source is doing to them. In other words, they're sinking to the same level as them, which makes them hypocrites. It's the reason why I'm not even bother with those games or even writing fake reviews to damage the games' credibility, even though I'm extremely tempted. I'm holding myself to a higher standard.
6.)And it can all go away pretty easily with various lawsuits over bull crap, which is why they should be thankful for what they have.
7.)You remember the episode approach I talked about before, right? For bigger visions, it's probably better to break it into smaller parts as digital titles before selling the whole thing retail. This would help with that. As for SCPCB, you'll have to do some reading first to fully enjoy it.
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#65king_maddenPosted 11/22/2012 9:14:41 PM
you can see things from multiple angles to support your cause yet seem to be unable to see multiple angles from a business stand point. you arent seeing multiple angles you're just looking down a hallway.

again thats something you deal with to maximize profit, people are going to pirate if they want to anyway. if a $10 purchase pushes them to pirating chances are they were going to do it anyway.

lol how does that make them hypocrites? making money off of THEIR product. thats like you feeling bad for the man who took from you just because you were able to get money back from the things that were taken. not quite that extreme but you should get the point. i always like when other people complain that that should be able to do what they want with the games they buy but then hate when devs do it. more hypocrites.

again if thats all it took for you to avoid games then you obviously didnt want to play them that badly anyway. oh well. what could go away with various lawsuits? online pass? thats not going anywhere.

since you are one that looks at multiple angles you should know how many people will be pissed with the digital approach? have to wait 3+ months to play a whole game? or what about the people who just buy the last episode to get to the good part? now the company has spent big on a game and people are just buying one small part of it? thats just not a good idea for a big release.
#66Jinzo 111887Posted 11/22/2012 9:57:12 PM
From: king_madden | Posted: 11/23/2012 12:14:41 AM
1.)you can see things from multiple angles to support your cause yet seem to be unable to see multiple angles from a business stand point. you arent seeing multiple angles you're just looking down a hallway.

2.)lol how does that make them hypocrites? making money off of THEIR product. thats like you feeling bad for the man who took from you just because you were able to get money back from the things that were taken. not quite that extreme but you should get the point. i always like when other people complain that that should be able to do what they want with the games they buy but then hate when devs do it. more hypocrites.

3.)again if thats all it took for you to avoid games then you obviously didnt want to play them that badly anyway. oh well. what could go away with various lawsuits? online pass? thats not going anywhere.

4.)since you are one that looks at multiple angles you should know how many people will be pissed with the digital approach? have to wait 3+ months to play a whole game? or what about the people who just buy the last episode to get to the good part? now the company has spent big on a game and people are just buying one small part of it? thats just not a good idea for a big release.

1.) I know companies want to earn a profit, but I think it's the wrong approach. Look at all the bad stuff that's been happening to companies that do this. Sony's had the PS3 rehacked and the PSVita got hacked too and EA got a bad rep this year to name two examples of companies suffering who use these things. Ill-gotten gains bring bad karma.
2.)Except the man who "took" from them has already bought it from them (either directly or indirectly), which means it's not theirs anymore. The only thing the new owner can't do is make unauthorized copies, reverse engineer, or break DRM. Basically, they are called the guy who bought their product a thief in order to his money and thing they sold.
3.)I'm still holding onto my pride, which keeps me walking a tight rope here. I won't play games with online passes, but won't pirate or defraud a company out of them out of respect. I would have gotten MK9 after they dropped the pass if they did so sooner, but I lost interest by then.
4.)I said "retail being released later while episodes have multiple plats," to get the platsoes. Also, they can set the official release date as the retail one to make sure people understand that the full game won't be available at start, but they can get it in parts early if they don't want to wait. It's like a preorder. I'll also suggest keeping various secrets hidden with hints hidden in different episodes to make people curious what's behind those locked doors.
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#67king_maddenPosted 11/22/2012 11:29:23 PM
1.) people hacked it because they wanted to, a bunch of companies have been hacked, they dont all use online passes, some of them not even gaming related, but they have been hacked, lets not act like thats the reason. there have been companies who have gone under who dont even support online passes, what was their bad karma?

2.) maybe in some instances he bought it indirectly, but if that man chose a used game over new simply because it was cheaper, thats a lost sale, so no he didnt "indirectly" buy from them, he was going to buy new, but decided to get used because it was cheaper, and because a lot of used games offer the same experience as a new one, so no real reason to get one.

3.) wait you are holding on to your pride? so if someone buys something they want, does that mean they are losing their pride? better be kidding me. now if your crusade works, companies lose money, and go out of business, which means even fewer games, and less creativity, and people lose their jobs, will you be satisfied then? do you actually feel that if companies lose money then all of a sudden they will start charging less for services? what exactly is your thought process? I mean I would think that if a company started losing a lot of money they would think of more and more ways to make money, not ways to charge less and make less. but i dont know, maybe your goal is to end gaming, i dont know.

4.) but again, people still have to wait months to play the whole game, many people would lose interest, after beating a chapter in a week or a few days, then having to wait a month for the next one. as for the secrets, people can just look on youtube, its either look on youtube see what it is, or pay $20+ for the extra chapters, a lot of people wouldnt find it worth it. there would still be a wait to play the full game at once and people dont like waiting. heck people complain if they have to wait an extra week for a release.
#68TwoNumbThumbsPosted 11/23/2012 12:16:35 AM
Ryphis_Demeanor posted...
I see the online pass as worthless. Most online communities after the first 8 months whither into decay and only the most ruthless players remain in an endless deathmatch.

If I buy used a game that needs an online pass then I just refuse to play the game online ever. They are only hurting their own online community overall by adding a pass system.

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#69jammitinPosted 11/23/2012 3:49:20 AM
I think that online passes are fading and were a pointless fad by publishers and devs like DRM was a few years ago when devs were slapping it on every PC game that came out.
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#70Jinzo 111887Posted 11/23/2012 8:28:48 AM
From: king_madden | Posted: 11/23/2012 2:29:23 AM
1.) people hacked it because they wanted to, a bunch of companies have been hacked, they dont all use online passes, some of them not even gaming related, but they have been hacked, lets not act like thats the reason. there have been companies who have gone under who dont even support online passes, what was their bad karma?

2.) maybe in some instances he bought it indirectly, but if that man chose a used game over new simply because it was cheaper, thats a lost sale, so no he didnt "indirectly" buy from them, he was going to buy new, but decided to get used because it was cheaper, and because a lot of used games offer the same experience as a new one, so no real reason to get one.

3.) wait you are holding on to your pride? so if someone buys something they want, does that mean they are losing their pride? better be kidding me. now if your crusade works, companies lose money, and go out of business, which means even fewer games, and less creativity, and people lose their jobs, will you be satisfied then? do you actually feel that if companies lose money then all of a sudden they will start charging less for services? what exactly is your thought process? I mean I would think that if a company started losing a lot of money they would think of more and more ways to make money, not ways to charge less and make less. but i dont know, maybe your goal is to end gaming, i dont know.

4.) but again, people still have to wait months to play the whole game, many people would lose interest, after beating a chapter in a week or a few days, then having to wait a month for the next one. as for the secrets, people can just look on youtube, its either look on youtube see what it is, or pay $20+ for the extra chapters, a lot of people wouldnt find it worth it. there would still be a wait to play the full game at once and people dont like waiting. heck people complain if they have to wait an extra week for a release.

1.) Wii could have been hacked because of the lack of N64 games. There's barely any N64 games on the Wii Shop Channel. Of course, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of letting fans down either. In the case of Mother/Earthbound, it's not all Nintendo's fault. Although, they could have explained it to those fans what the problem was.

2.) Which is not stealing.

3.) The only reason why I want the anti-used crap to die is because business should have ethics. You can't just burn down the competition, which is probably part of what they are hoping to do with this stuff.

4.) Okay, but if it requires a save file from the other episode that they can't put on their system unless they have that episode, there is more potential there. Think of it like how Golden Sun had Djinn with abilities that could be carried over to Golden Sun the Lost Age. As for the youtube thing, companies can send requests to get stuff taken down. Heck, they could also make it harder to get far by starting from later episodes this way. Harder, but not impossible. Besides, if divided into 6 episodes, they could earn as much as they would make for selling one pass. Besides, this isn't so much DLC as it is expansions. Although, they could always pull a fast one and say that they are separate games that can be linked together. (Think Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Separately, they are two games, but they are one big game too, when combined, you could unlock various secrets like Hyper Sonic.) They could also not mention a retail release until later on.
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