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Western developers are ruining the gaming industry

#461Ghetto_ninjaPosted 11/27/2012 1:35:13 PM
They are making it better in terms of shooters and action games like God of War. Japan has Platinum games at least and Suda 51.
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#462Devilman_AmonPosted 11/27/2012 1:39:27 PM
Ghetto_ninja posted...
They are making it better in terms of shooters and action games like God of War.


Bayonett & DMC > God of War
and no shooters are becoming more and more casualized.
Even a subpar shooter last gen by Namco (Breakdown) had health power ups like candy bars and hamburgers instead of auto regen as well as melee system.
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#463GreatTroySenseiPosted 11/27/2012 1:49:17 PM(edited)
Devilman_Amon posted...
GreatTroySensei posted...

They tried with DDR and constantly included very few songs, too little too late. Also, I take an indescribable amoutn of offense at your claim that Taiwan has no identity. Jesus effing christ, kids - get on a plan sometime.


DDR was very popular regardless; the missing link was the guitar which the already had and never tried to market to the West.

And my point was that I thought you were commenting from a current existing hands on experience of being in Japan...

Anyways what is Taiwan known for then other than exporting cheap products? They are obviously not that influential of a country in comparison to the others.


I've been to Japan before. I have close friends and coworkers alike who are Japanese, and have had family who lived there for years. Though I'm not posting from the place [Taiwan is better for my needs; comparable quality of living for a fraction of the cost] that should have no bearing on my knowledge of it.

If I were openly ripping on it, or using my experience to justify racism that'd be one thing... but Japan is chill. It's just not "Otakuland" and I hate it when people think that's the case.

The thing that made Guitar Hero a success was, once again, not the Guitar Peripheral. It was the library of licensed songs, and later titles' ability to add to that library. This has been documented before. Guitar Freaks is fun, but the music is weak. It wouldn'tve made as big a splash with the high school and college sets as GH did, without similar track lists including famous artists.

Taiwan is known for many things - not just exporting products, but ideas. Engineering here is incredible. Windows phones are basically repackaged HTCs, and ACER and ASUS parts pop up all over the place. In addition, Taiwan has it's own film and music industries, foods, aboriginal cultures, language... the whole 9 yards. You ever have bubble tea? Taiwan. You ever see a movie by Ang Lee? Taiwan. You remember Jeremy Lin from his 5 minutes? Taiwan. etc...

You didn't say that Taiwan wasn't as influential as other countries... you said that it has no identity. That's an abhorrent stance for a country that has a history of it's bids for independence being violently oppressed. Apologize, please.

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#464Flamer_BluePosted 11/27/2012 1:56:17 PM
Is this an excuse from japanese developers?
Wah we are awful and lazy devs. Western devs are doing better! They are ruining it for us!

Western devs have been the reason this gen didnt get stale. Meanwhile, the japanese still play garbage like wiimusic, resident evil 6, lost planet, dragon hunter, ffxiii
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PSN: Malakius
#465Devilman_AmonPosted 11/27/2012 1:59:03 PM
GreatTroySensei posted...
Devilman_Amon posted...
GreatTroySensei posted...

They tried with DDR and constantly included very few songs, too little too late. Also, I take an indescribable amoutn of offense at your claim that Taiwan has no identity. Jesus effing christ, kids - get on a plan sometime.


DDR was very popular regardless; the missing link was the guitar which the already had and never tried to market to the West.

And my point was that I thought you were commenting from a current existing hands on experience of being in Japan...

Anyways what is Taiwan known for then other than exporting cheap products? They are obviously not that influential of a country in comparison to the others.


I've been to Japan before. I have close friends and coworkers alike who are Japanese, and have had family who lived there for years. Though I'm not posting from the place [Taiwan is better for my needs; comparable quality of living for a fraction of the cost] that should have no bearing on my knowledge of it.

If I were openly ripping on it, or using my experience to justify racism that'd be one thing... but Japan is chill. It's just not "Otakuland" and I hate it when people think that's the case.

The thing that made Guitar Hero a success was, once again, not the Guitar Peripheral. It was the library of licensed songs, and later titles' ability to add to that library. This has been documented before. Guitar Freaks is fun, but the music is weak. It wouldn'tve made as big a splash with the high school and college sets as GH did, without similar track lists including famous artists.

Taiwan is known for many things - not just exporting products, but ideas. Engineering here is incredible. Windows phones are basically repackaged HTCs, and ACER and ASUS parts pop up all over the place. In addition, Taiwan has it's own film and music industries, foods, aboriginal cultures, language... the whole 9 yards. You ever have bubble tea? Taiwan. You ever see a movie by Ang Lee? Taiwan. You remember Jeremy Lin from his 5 minutes? Taiwan. etc...

You didn't say that Taiwan wasn't as influential as other countries... you said that it has no identity. That's an abhorrent stance for a country that has a history of it's bids for independence being violently oppressed. Apologize, please.


Damn it, people that got into GH, many of them arguably would not have been into DDR because you are talking about two different styles of music and two different ways to interact with the game.
So with GH/GF, you could get those people who hate dance music or those people who think dancing on a pad to a game is stupid but still like to "finally be able to play air guitar or something close to a guitar or even if I can play guitar, I can finally play one as a game" demographic.
So it WASN'T just the songs. It was a combination of both but FIRST you needed the guitar peripheral as the hook. Then you get the licenses. Konami had the idea first but they did not capitalize on the exporting it properly to the West to even gain interest to pursue the licenses.
And as I said, obviously despite not having dance music license, DDR still was a success.

As far as Taiwan, a country that has barely any influence will often as I said take influence from other sources hence why I said they have no identity.
So that might be the case of having a known 'weeaboo' status over there that you are experiencing because they are latching out for something to grasp onto that they don't have of their own.
Hell, I'll even go as far as to rip Korea one as well since they copy a lot from Japan such as K-Pop and some fashion trends (though their animation studios I heard are superior now go figure). Though everyone copies from everyone in one way or another I suppose...
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#466Devilman_AmonPosted 11/27/2012 2:01:53 PM
Flamer_Blue posted...
Is this an excuse from japanese developers?
Wah we are awful and lazy devs. Western devs are doing better! They are ruining it for us!

Western devs have been the reason this gen didnt get stale. Meanwhile, the japanese still play garbage like wiimusic, resident evil 6, lost planet, dragon hunter, ffxiii


First off you meant Monster Hunter. At least get your titles right.

Second, FF is ruined because of Westernization this gen so you can blame CoD influence and it's popularity for that one.

Same with RE5/RE6/RE ORC. They went from survival horror to Gears or War/CoD clones.

Lost Planet? That's another westernization fail.

And WiiMusic is for the casual non gaming crowd which Nintendo tapped into and made a fortune out of so if anything they used their heads. What did M$ do?
Kinect?

lol
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#467GreatTroySenseiPosted 11/27/2012 2:06:36 PM
Devilman_Amon posted...
Wait, what?


You understood none of what I said. I was saying that GH basically got funded by pitching allowing people to play to licensed songs, and that was what made it popular in the west. DDR NEVER became hugely popular in the west, it was a relatively niche title... even then, people liked the dancing gameplay. DDR could put gameplay first when localizing, and make it's money back.

Nobody played GH at first for the gameplay - they played it largely for the music.

RE: Taiwan... nobody here is a weeaboo. Your friend is a weeaboo. The people I mentioned here aren't 'into Japanese things' - they're Japanese, from Japan, who live and work here. The Taiwanese who know Japanese culture didn't 'latch onto' it - they got it through cultural osmosis. Taiwan was at one point occupied by the Japanese, and that happens - same way Japan got so much American crap.

You aren't good at organizing your thoughts, and you still continue to try and justify your misguided statements about Taiwan, rather than simple saying "I'm sorry, I misunderstood." Now I'm done with you, too.
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These are like, third dimension glasses, you know? They don't really work, though because I feel like I'm still seeing stuff in whatever dimension we live in.
#468P00DGEPosted 11/27/2012 2:11:16 PM
Devilman_Amon posted...
P00DGE posted...
It is a cultural thing (which ties back into how it is not developers that are ruining gaming, but the gamers themselves, but even that is debatable... gaming is being ruined).


You can't say that though when the genre barely was given a chance. And I don't just mean 'dating sims' but Visual Novels (which they cal ADV or Adventure games over there).
Catherine and Hakuoki sold well this year. The majority of the time you spend in ME is done talking thats why I joke and call it a conversation simulator. Even the people who defend ME mention this (when the are trying to say its not a TPS).
Even games like Blazblue which is a fighting game, is heralded for its story mode which is ...basically a visual novel. So the potential for interest certainly is there.


I understand this, but not many people in the US would buy a game that had ONLY those elements in them. They can be nice extras to add to the story, but people buy the games for the parts with the action
#469P00DGEPosted 11/27/2012 2:21:16 PM
Devilman_Amon posted...
Flamer_Blue posted...
Is this an excuse from japanese developers?
Wah we are awful and lazy devs. Western devs are doing better! They are ruining it for us!

Western devs have been the reason this gen didnt get stale. Meanwhile, the japanese still play garbage like wiimusic, resident evil 6, lost planet, dragon hunter, ffxiii


First off you meant Monster Hunter. At least get your titles right.

Second, FF is ruined because of Westernization this gen so you can blame CoD influence and it's popularity for that one.

Same with RE5/RE6/RE ORC. They went from survival horror to Gears or War/CoD clones.

Lost Planet? That's another westernization fail.

And WiiMusic is for the casual non gaming crowd which Nintendo tapped into and made a fortune out of so if anything they used their heads. What did M$ do?
Kinect?

lol


It isn't Western developer's fault that Japanese developers decided to make crappy games that tried to emulate crappy genres. They didn't tell them to do it. Games like CoD just sold RIDICULOUSLY well, and I don't blame Eastern Developers for wanting a piece of that action. It is lucrative. They could have chosen any number of other successful, creative and wonderful games that Western Developers are known for, but they chose the CoD and Gears of War route because it was selling well. Again, CUSTOMERS are at fault here, not developers in the West.
#470P00DGEPosted 11/27/2012 2:22:18 PM
GreatTroySensei posted...
IHeartMetroid posted...
"He actually did make good points though. Especially the bit about it being mainstream in Japan. "

No, he didn't. He's a pretentious know it all who THINKS that the few friends from Japan that he can get to pay attention to him represent the entire spectrum of the nation, and he CONTINUES to ignore everything said to him that obliterates in every way, shape or form, the ridiculous idiocy that he spews here in this forum.

And you BELIEVE him, because you don't know any better. I doubt he'd know the works of Hasekura, Kamiyama, Takahata, Ozo or Ichikawa if they were thrown at him.

Just because you have a Japanese friend or two doesn't make you an expert, nor does it mean your experiences represent the country as a whole.

And for the person talking about sales grosses-
Art house and independent films here in the US gross a tiny fraction of the JJ Abrams blockbusters. Would you consider them unimportant or "just for kids"?


Yo, I'ma let you finish but I've been living and working in Taiwan for half a decade, and Japanese culture, both niche and mainstream has a pervasive and heavy-handed influence on popular culture here. World history and all. Anyway, Hayao Miyazaki has the greatest animes of all time. OF ALL TIME.

But... he's the exception, not the rule. He's the Madworld to Wii's shovelware library; the Empire Strikes Back to George Lucas.

Most Japanese couldn't name most anime/manga creators. They wouldn't know Hideyaki Anno way most Americans wouldn't know Denny O'Neal. Yes, even though we all watched Dark Knight, yes even though I've seen students of mine with Hello Kitty x Evangelion notepads.

I'm sorry, but Japan isn't a magical land waiting idly to validate your interests and pat you on the head as she tells you that you were the hippest kid all along.

Japan has the same greedy, self-important media of every other first world nation. Sometimes it's awesome [oh hi there, Takashi Miike] but most times it's absolutely dreck [their only non-animated TV shows of even a little worth in the past decade were a flight-attendant school drama called "Attention Please" and a reality show about a dog and monkey who solved problems as a pair.]

Same as America. For every 'Breaking Bad' you have twenty or thirty 'Two and Half Men' with as large, or larger, an audience.

Don't get so butthurt about it. I'm helping you grow, man. Take my hand on this magic carpet ride into maturity. Save some cash, take a trip to Japan next summer, get your bang on, buy some nerdy souvenirs... get the whole thing out of your system, and find yourself a more balanced person.

/speaking from experience. /topic.

(Yes, it became about our personal squabble; the RPG debate got stupid 5 pages ago.)


This is probably the best post in the topic. It elegantly put into words what I was trying to say about Japanese culture as a whole.