This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

Japan makes the best action & RPG , West makes the best FPS & shooters

#151theshovellerPosted 11/30/2012 8:13:26 AM
DarkestSouls posted...
Sinfullyvannila posted...
They also need to get rid of the stupid levelled loot crap.


that is the least of their worries, fix the fundamentals first

- Combat physics, first and foremost, the utmost important thing to fix
- Get a motion capture engine, because the animation is embarrassing for today's games
- 3rd person view camera. It's fine to have 1st person view camera for shooters where you look at your target thru a cross-hair, but for melee-action RPG, that's just not right

Fix those thing, then they would have a decent mechanic


I kinda like first-person melee at times. Not all the time, but sometimes it works. Hexen and Hexen II, for example, and I'd throw Skyrim in that list. Probably Mirror's Edge, too.
#152IHeartMetroidPosted 11/30/2012 8:14:14 AM
This is the only answer to any of these topics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ffL573XI50
#153Godly_GoofPosted 11/30/2012 8:14:39 AM
DarkestSouls posted...
-Damien- posted...
here,

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/615803-the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim?search=combat

scan those pages, it's not hard to see many have the same opinion. SKYRIM COMBAT SUCKS



yeah Skyrim combat is bad, no need wasting time defending that

Behesda just needs to take a lesson from Dark Souls and improve on the next Elder Scrolls iteration


I wouldnt say it sucks. Its not stellar but it gets the job done people dont like it because its not DS combat. But honestly Id hate Skyrim with DS combat :/ would take way to long to kill anything :/

That and thats also been ES' combat engine since at least Morrowind that I know of, dunno why people thought it would/should drastically change in one game O_o

... Well aside from losing random dice rolls after Morrowind but that only made sense.
---
"All things are about Jesus Homer .......... Except this."
#154DarkestSoulsPosted 11/30/2012 8:20:26 AM
theshoveller posted...
DarkestSouls posted...
Sinfullyvannila posted...
They also need to get rid of the stupid levelled loot crap.


that is the least of their worries, fix the fundamentals first

- Combat physics, first and foremost, the utmost important thing to fix
- Get a motion capture engine, because the animation is embarrassing for today's games
- 3rd person view camera. It's fine to have 1st person view camera for shooters where you look at your target thru a cross-hair, but for melee-action RPG, that's just not right

Fix those thing, then they would have a decent mechanic


I kinda like first-person melee at times. Not all the time, but sometimes it works. Hexen and Hexen II, for example, and I'd throw Skyrim in that list. Probably Mirror's Edge, too.


The only time I can think of, for 1st person melee, is boxing. Other than that, I don't know.

For melee-based action, especially with swords, there are many ranges of body movement that you have to take into account. For example to swing a massive sword, you need a momentum, so what you do is that you bring the sword over your back and swing it from there to get the full momentum and speed.

It also balances out the battle, since massive sword will deal more damage, so it makes sense to give it long attack animation. so there's a balance between risk and reward.

Full animation like that can't be captured in 1st person view
#155SinfullyvannilaPosted 11/30/2012 8:24:03 AM
DarkestSouls posted...
Sinfullyvannila posted...
They also need to get rid of the stupid levelled loot crap.


that is the least of their worries, fix the fundamentals first

- Combat physics, first and foremost, the utmost important thing to fix
- Get a motion capture engine, because the animation is embarrassing for today's games
- 3rd person view camera. It's fine to have 1st person view camera for shooters where you look at your target thru a cross-hair, but for melee-action RPG, that's just not right

Fix those thing, then they would have a decent mechanic


That's the biggest of their worries, since even TES fans hate that.

People don't really play TES for the combat, they play it for the exploration, and the levelled loot kills incentive to explore.

I mean, better combat would be better, but that's not what the fans are looking for.
---
Polite conversation should never include Politics, Religion or what constitutes an RPG.
Playing a game for it's story is like watching porn for it's story.
#156Godly_GoofPosted 11/30/2012 8:28:37 AM
Sinfullyvannila posted...
DarkestSouls posted...
Sinfullyvannila posted...
They also need to get rid of the stupid levelled loot crap.


that is the least of their worries, fix the fundamentals first

- Combat physics, first and foremost, the utmost important thing to fix
- Get a motion capture engine, because the animation is embarrassing for today's games
- 3rd person view camera. It's fine to have 1st person view camera for shooters where you look at your target thru a cross-hair, but for melee-action RPG, that's just not right

Fix those thing, then they would have a decent mechanic


That's the biggest of their worries, since even TES fans hate that.

People don't really play TES for the combat, they play it for the exploration, and the levelled loot kills incentive to explore.

I mean, better combat would be better, but that's not what the fans are looking for.


Ya I do miss that, although it's at times a very mixed bag. I did like occasionally finding that OMFG THIS IS AMAZING item in a dungeon by accident. BUT at the same time some dungeons just broke the game if you found them early enough lol, I remember the one cult tower thingy had like a full set of Glass armor that was actually really easy to get and was right along the main quest path and once you had it you turned into a murderboss.

Though at the same time some stuff was just impossible to find which was really annoying. Mainly the Deadric Longbow that you needed levitate to get and in that painfully specific dungeon, was just kinda annoying lol.

But ya having to be X level to get certain stuff is a little frustrating thats for sure :/
---
"All things are about Jesus Homer .......... Except this."
#157Godly_GoofPosted 11/30/2012 8:37:14 AM
Sinfullyvannila posted...
DarkestSouls posted...
Sinfullyvannila posted...
They also need to get rid of the stupid levelled loot crap.


that is the least of their worries, fix the fundamentals first

- Combat physics, first and foremost, the utmost important thing to fix
- Get a motion capture engine, because the animation is embarrassing for today's games
- 3rd person view camera. It's fine to have 1st person view camera for shooters where you look at your target thru a cross-hair, but for melee-action RPG, that's just not right

Fix those thing, then they would have a decent mechanic


That's the biggest of their worries, since even TES fans hate that.

People don't really play TES for the combat, they play it for the exploration, and the levelled loot kills incentive to explore.

I mean, better combat would be better, but that's not what the fans are looking for.


As for combat, its not terribly dynamic but I dont think it needs to be. Its simple and brainless and easy, I dont want every stupid fight to devolve into DS' *read pattern* evade, counter, evade, counter *read pattern*, etc. Repeat till dead formula. It was fine in that because it was built around that mechanic but ES games in large not so much. That and frankly I was sick of having to do that after halfway through my first playthrough :/ Just felt like it made things take unnecessarily long, well unless I just wanted to Butterfly shield troll them anyway.

As for animations. It really doesnt matter tbh. In first person most of that stuff wouldnt even be visual, its just there for appearance sake its not trying to be perfectly accurate. And if he was referring to 3rd person, 3rd person is neat and all and I like playing it but its always been a backseat to 1st person in all ES games. It was always just tacked on if you felt like using it. Never was intended to be perfect.

Like Mirrors edge for example. Half the animations in that were the farthest thing from accurate, BUT they looked really cool and felt like they conveyed what they were supposed to be doing so that was why they made them that way.
---
"All things are about Jesus Homer .......... Except this."
#158JohnHitman47Posted 11/30/2012 8:38:22 AM
Vanquish and BD are meh games, i'l take gear of war, uncharted and halo any day, on RPG the only JRPG i like its D souls the other i play are western.
---
I Love FPS but only good FPS & Horror this its my sig!!!
#159theshovellerPosted 11/30/2012 8:39:51 AM
DarkestSouls posted...
The only time I can think of, for 1st person melee, is boxing. Other than that, I don't know.

For melee-based action, especially with swords, there are many ranges of body movement that you have to take into account. For example to swing a massive sword, you need a momentum, so what you do is that you bring the sword over your back and swing it from there to get the full momentum and speed.

It also balances out the battle, since massive sword will deal more damage, so it makes sense to give it long attack animation. so there's a balance between risk and reward.

Full animation like that can't be captured in 1st person view


But you don't need to see the animation every single time to be able to play a first-person melee game, even if you're using something like a big honkin' two-hander in Skyrim that has a slow attack speed. After using it a few times, you learn how long a charge attack takes to fire off, how long a regular attack takes to execute, how long and how strong the different charges take to pull off, and so on and so forth. With Skyrim, it's not a game where, if your character model pulls his arms up over his head to do an overhead chop, you have to worry about if you have enough height above you to perform it, or if they're going to "brush up against that fire," or anything like that.

Plus, I have a pretty good feel for how my guys move when using something like that. If I move forward and do a charge attack, and see my character's viewpoint move a bit forward and down, then my hammer comes flying in from the lower-right half of the screen across to the lower-left side, then I can figure out my guy most likely took a step forward, swung the hammer low in front of him, and readied it for my next attack - much like a real person would if they had to swing a sledgehammer or a maul like that.

Now, something more akin to a Devil May Cry battle system, where it's extremely fast and fluid and things like precise animation frames might be needed to know when to dodge, when to thrust, or when to launch into the air, then I could see how a first-person melee system might not be the best unless it's designed with it in mind.

Agree to disagree, I guess, but I can see your point and agree with you somewhat.
#160blax34dmPosted 11/30/2012 8:50:04 AM
Evel138 posted...
And I didn't say, you said it "sucks" either......damn people need to learn how to read.

Good for you and all your reasons you find Skyrim "mediocre" though........I could just as easily say the Sistine Chapel is "mediocre" because I don't find any of the art particularly appealing......would was technically involved......not relevant apparently.


I'm a little late to the party, but man this guy has a chubby for skyrim. It's just not that good dude, get over it.