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Demon / Dark Souls fans, please explain why you don't want an easy mode....

#11kill_distroy(Topic Creator)Posted 12/13/2012 1:54:45 AM
Kiyomasa posted...
games like dark souls need to be accepted as a whole. it's not a simple thing to make a game that finely balanced and then dumb it down for lazier players. i don't see why you should be pandered to in the first place. just get better at the game.


yet From Software are talking about an easier mode of some sorts.
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#12KiyomasaPosted 12/13/2012 1:55:15 AM
according to what
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ALL CREATURE WILL DIE AND ALL THE THINGS WILL BE BROKEN. THAT'S THE LAW OF SAMURAI.
#13B_COWPosted 12/13/2012 1:56:38 AM
The most challenging aspect in the Souls series was how the enemy fought back.
The major difference between difficulty modes in most games is that harder difficulties correspond to higher HP and higher damage output from the AI.
Basically, even if a casual played Dark Souls on easy mode, where he could take 10x more damage before death and could kill enemies 5 times as fast wouldn't make much of a difference if the player can't land a hit to begin with. The Soul series was more about tactics and reactions as opposed to OP gear and numerical values. Much like the Monster Hunter games, they only become "easier" once the player begins to adapt.
Essentially, the only way to cater to the players who fail to adapt the mechanics of the game is to entirely rewrite the AI programming. Huge delays before attacks, reduced possibilities for the player to be stunned, and an overall dumbed down version of a beautiful game. Not only is the though of intentionally ruining a great game disrespectful to the creators of this masterpiece, but it is also a huge undertaking to attempt to recode an entire game just so the player can walk through the game. I'd much rather the time and effort go towards other aspects of improving the game to keep it's one definition true : Challenging.
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Some people say cucumbers taste better pickled.
#14kupo1705Posted 12/13/2012 1:56:58 AM
kill_distroy posted...
kupo1705 posted...
kill_distroy posted...
kupo1705 posted...
If you need an easy mode, you don't deserve to play it.


Care to explain why? or is that the general attitude of a souls fan who has no idea what he is talking about?


Without the difficulty, the whole game falls apart.
Difficulty is not all it has to offer, but it is what holds it all together.
The combat, atmosphere, discovering etc., it'll be ruined by lowering the difficulty.


That might be true in some cases. Still, you are not forced to play on a lower difficulty setting, it would be there merely for those player who do not have the patience to die a lot and grind a bit in order to progress through the game.

Just imagine this, if Dark / Demon souls both had a somewhat easier mode which has a different online server or no online at all, and the default difficulty for these games remained the exact same, would you still oppose it?


If you can't play these games, then don't.
#15kill_distroy(Topic Creator)Posted 12/13/2012 2:01:10 AM
B_COW posted...
The most challenging aspect in the Souls series was how the enemy fought back.
The major difference between difficulty modes in most games is that harder difficulties correspond to higher HP and higher damage output from the AI.
Basically, even if a casual played Dark Souls on easy mode, where he could take 10x more damage before death and could kill enemies 5 times as fast wouldn't make much of a difference if the player can't land a hit to begin with. The Soul series was more about tactics and reactions as opposed to OP gear and numerical values. Much like the Monster Hunter games, they only become "easier" once the player begins to adapt.
Essentially, the only way to cater to the players who fail to adapt the mechanics of the game is to entirely rewrite the AI programming. Huge delays before attacks, reduced possibilities for the player to be stunned, and an overall dumbed down version of a beautiful game. Not only is the though of intentionally ruining a great game disrespectful to the creators of this masterpiece, but it is also a huge undertaking to attempt to recode an entire game just so the player can walk through the game. I'd much rather the time and effort go towards other aspects of improving the game to keep it's one definition true : Challenging.


I disagree. I think that most deaths in souls games come from talking a big or receiving too much damage in 1 hit or in a very short amount of time. If the easier difficulty only affects the amount of damage you deal and is being dealt to you then it could easily work. Other things are by design and should still be kept as part of the experience. After all, I am not talking about an easy mode, but an "easier" mode.
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Got it Memorized?
GT: Risev / PSN: RisevQ8
#16jubjub360Posted 12/13/2012 2:02:17 AM
kupo1705 posted...
kill_distroy posted...
kupo1705 posted...
kill_distroy posted...
kupo1705 posted...
If you need an easy mode, you don't deserve to play it.


Care to explain why? or is that the general attitude of a souls fan who has no idea what he is talking about?


Without the difficulty, the whole game falls apart.
Difficulty is not all it has to offer, but it is what holds it all together.
The combat, atmosphere, discovering etc., it'll be ruined by lowering the difficulty.


That might be true in some cases. Still, you are not forced to play on a lower difficulty setting, it would be there merely for those player who do not have the patience to die a lot and grind a bit in order to progress through the game.

Just imagine this, if Dark / Demon souls both had a somewhat easier mode which has a different online server or no online at all, and the default difficulty for these games remained the exact same, would you still oppose it?


If you can't play these games, then don't.


Is this really all you have to bring to the table?
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"I believe games are incomplete when DLC is released, no matter the date!" Agrissa
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#17KiyomasaPosted 12/13/2012 2:03:06 AM
why don't you go colorize some old movies while you're at it.
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ALL CREATURE WILL DIE AND ALL THE THINGS WILL BE BROKEN. THAT'S THE LAW OF SAMURAI.
#18Mud_ChanPosted 12/13/2012 2:05:09 AM
kill_distroy posted...
PVP could be split between the 2 difficulty settings, no need for them to be connected.

This would split the population, which would not be good. Additionally, just imagine all the griefers you would find on the easy server. A whole slew of one trick builds ensuring that even the easy mode players will stay in soul/hollow/offline form.

I would also like to clarify, I'm not opposed to making an easy mode for Battletoads just because I beat it on a 12" screen, but it didn't have an online mode. If this game was a single player experience, I would not mind at all. Unfortunately, someone playing on an easy server does have some fraction of an impact on my play and my fun levels. Greedy, yes.
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#19kill_distroy(Topic Creator)Posted 12/13/2012 2:06:02 AM
kupo1705 posted...
kill_distroy posted...
kupo1705 posted...
kill_distroy posted...
kupo1705 posted...
If you need an easy mode, you don't deserve to play it.


Care to explain why? or is that the general attitude of a souls fan who has no idea what he is talking about?


Without the difficulty, the whole game falls apart.
Difficulty is not all it has to offer, but it is what holds it all together.
The combat, atmosphere, discovering etc., it'll be ruined by lowering the difficulty.


That might be true in some cases. Still, you are not forced to play on a lower difficulty setting, it would be there merely for those player who do not have the patience to die a lot and grind a bit in order to progress through the game.

Just imagine this, if Dark / Demon souls both had a somewhat easier mode which has a different online server or no online at all, and the default difficulty for these games remained the exact same, would you still oppose it?


If you can't play these games, then don't.


I can, and I have. I didn't play Demon's souls, but have played dark souls for over 80 hours. I confess that I exploited the dark root garden grinding spot and the game was much easier as a result, yet the experience of the game remained one the best this generation.

Gamers have different tastes. Some crave brutal difficulty and a sense if reward while others want a great experience they can easily enjoy. For me, I got the latter with Dark souls. So why can't others get that kind of experience just because of some weird thing some fans of the series believe they are entitled to?
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Got it Memorized?
GT: Risev / PSN: RisevQ8
#20kupo1705Posted 12/13/2012 2:06:23 AM
jubjub360 posted...
Is this really all you have to bring to the table?


That's all that needs to be said.
Why would you want to change other games, instead of playing games you do like?