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Can I start with MGS3? (Holiday Sale)

#41jubjub360Posted 12/30/2012 2:27:12 AM
And look he's resorting to personal insults! That's why you shouldn't listen to him. His credibility has been in question this whole topic and he's just a sad pitiful troll who can't accept the fact that the games can be played out of release order and you'd still get the same affect.

Seriously TC don't listen to someone like that where his only argument is narrative.
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#42DuwstaiPosted 12/30/2012 2:28:06 AM
From: jubjub360 | #039
And now you're pissing me off. You're arguing something you have no clue about. He will not miss anything if he starts with 3. If anything it makes the most sense to start with 3 and continue from there.

"Oh narrative!" shut up about the narrative. If he wants to play the story from the very beginning, then don't sit there an act all high and mighty with your whole numbered game purism. That's my whole point of why I'm saying star with 3. For the story, not how something is presented.

Im pissing you off?

Im trying to tell you the very simple reasoning behind playing them in release order and youre calling me a "numbered game purist" as if its some derogatory term, and completely disregarding everything Im saying.

And how a story is presented is the crux of what makes a story work, thats what Im trying to tell you. Movies have flashbacks at certain points. Lets say a movie had a flashback at the end to set up the finale... would it be a good idea to take that out of the ending and watch it at the beginning.. just because its the chronological order of what happened in the universe? Uh no. It would take away that flashbacks entire function.

And the sequence of games are in fact one overarching story, so its important to play them in the right order. Thats what Im trying to tell you, and you just are apparently incapable of understanding it.
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balls
#43jubjub360Posted 12/30/2012 2:32:59 AM(edited)
Duwstai posted...
From: jubjub360 | #039
And now you're pissing me off. You're arguing something you have no clue about. He will not miss anything if he starts with 3. If anything it makes the most sense to start with 3 and continue from there.

"Oh narrative!" shut up about the narrative. If he wants to play the story from the very beginning, then don't sit there an act all high and mighty with your whole numbered game purism. That's my whole point of why I'm saying star with 3. For the story, not how something is presented.

Im pissing you off?

Im trying to tell you the very simple reasoning behind playing them in release order and youre calling me a "numbered game purist" as if its some derogatory term, and completely disregarding everything Im saying.

And how a story is presented is the crux of what makes a story work, thats what Im trying to tell you. Movies have flashbacks at certain points. Lets say a movie had a flashback at the end to set up the finale... would it be a good idea to take that out of the ending and watch it at the beginning.. just because its the chronological order of what happened in the universe? Uh no. It would take away that flashbacks entire function.

And the sequence of games are in fact one overarching story, so its important to play them in the right order. Thats what Im trying to tell you, and you just are apparently incapable of understanding it.


So what? Does MGS3 have flash forwards to MGS 1 2 or 4? Does MGS 1 or 2 have flash backs to MGS3? No it doesn't. The flashbacks that you are talking about is what is going on during the time they are shown. They are literally side bars. Yeah it's fun watching them and getting more information on it, but it doesn't do anything more than that.

MGS3 is fine to start with, especially if you want to know where it all began.

And you're pissing me off because you disregarded my list of chronological order of the games just because they weren't in your precious game release order.
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#44DuwstaiPosted 12/30/2012 2:31:34 AM
From: jubjub360 | #041
Seriously TC don't listen to someone like that where his only argument is narrative.


-_-

Well considering we are discussing the best way to experience a story, Id say thats what actually matters.

I mean if narrative isnt what matters in the case of experiencing the story... what exactly does Mr. jubby?



I already said if he doesnt care about the overarching story of the series he could play in any order he wants. What is so hard to understand about this?
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balls
#45DuwstaiPosted 12/30/2012 2:32:25 AM(edited)
From: jubjub360 | #043
So what? Does MGS3 have flash forwards to MGS 1 2 or 4? Does MGS 1 or 2 have flash backs to MGS3? No it doesn't. The flashbacks that you are talking about is what is going on during the time they are shown. They are literally side bars. Yeah it's fun watching them and getting more information on it, but it doesn't do anything more than that.

MGS3 is fine to start with, especially if you want to know where it all began.


....


...

Are you kidding? MGS3 IS THE FLASHBACK. Um.. how the hell did you miss that?

Are you serious right now?
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balls
#46jubjub360Posted 12/30/2012 2:34:05 AM
Duwstai posted...
From: jubjub360 | #043
So what? Does MGS3 have flash forwards to MGS 1 2 or 4? Does MGS 1 or 2 have flash backs to MGS3? No it doesn't. The flashbacks that you are talking about is what is going on during the time they are shown. They are literally side bars. Yeah it's fun watching them and getting more information on it, but it doesn't do anything more than that.

MGS3 is fine to start with, especially if you want to know where it all began.


....


...

Are you kidding? MGS3 IS THE FLASHBACK. Um.. how the hell did you miss that?

Are you serious right now?


Now you're grasping for straws. I'm done with you.
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#47DuwstaiPosted 12/30/2012 2:37:19 AM
From: jubjub360 | #046
Now you're grasping for straws. I'm done with you.

The entire series is one overarching narrative. Its why what happened in each game relates to and built up to what happened in the finale.

Oh yeah, you dont know what that is.



Well whatever, cant reason with some people. They just have their heads permanently in the dirt.

There is a reason everyone in this topic except some guy name "jubjub" said the series should be played in release order.

I think you guys know what to do.
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balls
#48IHeartMetroidPosted 12/30/2012 2:42:33 AM
jubjub360 posted...
And look he's resorting to personal insults! That's why you shouldn't listen to him. His credibility has been in question this whole topic and he's just a sad pitiful troll


Yeah, I completely agree with you on this point. He's the kind of person who, when faced with an argument that he is losing, resorts to ridiculous immature insults and outright hyperbolic lies, then believes he has "won" the day.

He is completely not credible.

*MG Saga Spoilers*

As someone who HAS played all the games extensively (unlike him), from the MSX games through both versions of MGS (PSX and GameCube) and all the versions of 2, 3 and 4, I do know that there are little things that Kojima has placed through the game series that you are not supposed to know at certain points. If you play MGS3 and Peace Walker first, there are revelations about "Master Miller", Ocelot, Paramedic, etc that you might consider spoiled. Plus, if you play MGS3 knowing that after all he goes through, and knowing he still ends up as the Big Boss everyone fears and hates from the earlier games, it seems like it would have a bit more impact. These are the events that broke a man, that destroyed his faith and made him a monster. Without playing the earlier games in the series, it would just be a game about a man and his struggles.

This, I believe (and something that the noncredible troll could not accomplish) is what it means to play it in release order. We are meant to begin the saga as the rookie- as the green soldier full of hope, and watch the story unfold and we become the man facing what the monster created, the events that his deeds allowed to unfold... then we are to look inward, because only then, by understanding what made the man who he was could we see the why- and understand about the real, les enfants terribles, and about Zero and what he did... and finally, after all that, we must lay to rest the final piece of the puzzle, and that is the end of MGS4... and of the series.
#49jubjub360Posted 12/30/2012 2:52:18 AM
IHeartMetroid posted...
jubjub360 posted...
And look he's resorting to personal insults! That's why you shouldn't listen to him. His credibility has been in question this whole topic and he's just a sad pitiful troll


Yeah, I completely agree with you on this point. He's the kind of person who, when faced with an argument that he is losing, resorts to ridiculous immature insults and outright hyperbolic lies, then believes he has "won" the day.

He is completely not credible.

*MG Saga Spoilers*

As someone who HAS played all the games extensively (unlike him), from the MSX games through both versions of MGS (PSX and GameCube) and all the versions of 2, 3 and 4, I do know that there are little things that Kojima has placed through the game series that you are not supposed to know at certain points. If you play MGS3 and Peace Walker first, there are revelations about "Master Miller", Ocelot, Paramedic, etc that you might consider spoiled. Plus, if you play MGS3 knowing that after all he goes through, and knowing he still ends up as the Big Boss everyone fears and hates from the earlier games, it seems like it would have a bit more impact. These are the events that broke a man, that destroyed his faith and made him a monster. Without playing the earlier games in the series, it would just be a game about a man and his struggles.

This, I believe (and something that the noncredible troll could not accomplish) is what it means to play it in release order. We are meant to begin the saga as the rookie- as the green soldier full of hope, and watch the story unfold and we become the man facing what the monster created, the events that his deeds allowed to unfold... then we are to look inward, because only then, by understanding what made the man who he was could we see the why- and understand about the real, les enfants terribles, and about Zero and what he did... and finally, after all that, we must lay to rest the final piece of the puzzle, and that is the end of MGS4... and of the series.


I agree with everything you said except the second paragraph's second sentence. If you literally start with MGS1, you'll know right away this guy isn't a rookie. Something about him gives the assumption that he's done this stealth mission before. To truly get that sense of the green soldier, you'd have to play Metal Gear first before anything. Then and only then does that sentence make sense.

Also, if a player starts at 3, no prior knowledge of the series, I think when big boss finally falls from grace, it'll hit the player hard but starting at release time... You already start with hating the guy.

As a matter of fact, I think that was the problem with the Star Wars trilogy (yeah I know I went off topic. Just work with me though). You start off hating Vader and then you go back to where it all began... And you still hate him. I still think it's more impacting to watch the first character's fall from grace and then watching them get taken out in the future. Way more hitting and emotional.
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#50IHeartMetroidPosted 12/30/2012 3:03:55 AM
"If you literally start with MGS1,"


I was referring to the MSX games. If all you do is read their summaries from MGS1 (or worse yet, don't do either) then you don't know who Grey Fox is, who the heck this Big Boss guy is, what a Zanzibar is, or why Naomi is... you know.