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Why would people rather give their money to EB/Gamestop than to developers?

#231Lerry757Posted 1/7/2013 5:35:39 PM
Sinfullyvannila posted...
Consumers don't support developers ever. They support retailers, who support publishers, who support developers.

Publishers pay developers most of their money before the games hit the shelves based on labor and sales expectations. They get incentives based on units shipped. That is, sold to the retailer. The only time more units get shipped is when retailers restock, which usually doesn't happen with videogames. Hence, consumers very rarely affect how much a developer gets paid.

I'm really sick of having to explain a consumer chain.


+1
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#232calhoun1389Posted 1/7/2013 11:50:21 PM
Jinzo 111887 posted...
Post #226

1) You're a very rare case. Most people buy used and if something happens to that copy, buy used again.

2a) Gamesharing is against the ToS and can get you banned from PSN if they find out you're doing it.

2b) We're heading down the road of everyone needing an online passcode. It's not going to happen over night, but recently more and more games are doing the online pass/new purchase exclusive thing.

2c) Thanks for bringing up that faulty complaint about server stress. That's not the complaint against used games at all. The issue is that the more people trade in and buy used, the less copies of a game Gamestop will order from the publisher. The less they order from the publisher, the less money said publisher gets to pay their bills (be it the cost of employees, servers, or just keeping the power on in their compounds). The only extra stress would come from the millions of user profiles saved on their servers that they can't delete without user permission or legitimate cause.

3) You realize that would cause massive sales losses, right? With everyone trying to reach out to the casual market, doing something like that could cost them big time as most of those casual players wouldn't know it got released. When was the last time you saw a Walmart or Target sell any game that's had no advertisement at all?

4) You realize that they're blocking online play as a response to the growing Used game market, right? If used gaming sales drop back down to what they were back with the PS1, they'd really have no reason to make things "worse" at all. It's all cause and effect. We do something to them, and they do something to us in return. The more we as consumers bite into their profits, the more we can expect them to bite back.

5) That's all hearsay, The fact is, the games are being sold, and the publishers aren't seeing a cent. That's all that matters. Possibilities be damned, you'd be just as pissed if you were a publisher and millions of copies of your game was sold and you say no profit from it.

6) Bad comparison. However, I'll bite. Yes, there should be business ethics, but those ethics should not (and do not) count when dealing with non-customers. If you're not buying first hand, then they should have no obligations to treat you as if you had. The faulty mindset of "Well I have a copy (doesn't matter how I got it), they should pander to me too as I'm not one of their precious consumers" needs to go. If you didn't buy from them, then you shouldn't expect the same treatment or even content as someone who did. This mindset appears to be the source of the anti-online pass rage.
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#233Jinzo 111887Posted 1/8/2013 12:59:02 AM(edited)
1.)I learned my lesson after the last used PS3 game I bought corrupted my hard drive, paid the extra five dollars to upgrade to new.
2a.)Yes it is, but some people do it anyway. Personally, Sony could have pulled a Steam and reduced prices of as much stuff as possible by 50% when they reduced the licenses by 60%, higher unit price, lower total price. Might have increased digital sales.
2b.)I'll probably go retro if that's the case. I can't stand the childish behavior of companies these days.
2c.)Learn to work with a smaller budget. There have been a number of games over the years that prove you don't need a huge budget to be a massive success. Yes, it's nice to have games that had a lot of resources put into them, but those games should be spread out so people don't take them for granted.
3.)Well, it doesn't have to be a complete surprise. Just keep things quiet until they feel like they are ready to show something off. Heck, they could use a code name like Sega did with Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode 1. This might have been part of what Duke Nukem Forever did wrong.
4.)And who's to say they aren't paranoid and think they are still losing money to used game sales? Maybe seeing them being able to shove consumer around will make them think they can do so even more. In my opinion, karma caught up to THQ. Hate to see what it does to EA and Sony.
5.)I'd be a little upset, but I'd not act like a spoil little child over it.
6.) I'd recommend them mimicking Nintendo and GOG. Treat customers right, not make them jump through more hoops for your paranoia. Nintendo has Club Nintendo to get people to buy new, while GOG makes used games feel like VHS takes and their downloads are DVDs. Here's a link to show you what I mean: http://www.gog.com/gamecard/sam_max_save_the_world
Sony did take a step in the right direction with Cross Buy, but they are still acting children as long as they continue to use the online passes/single player lock content codes just to get people to buy new.
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#234calhoun1389Posted 1/8/2013 3:55:11 AM
Jinzo 111887 posted...
1.)I learned my lesson after the last used PS3 game I bought corrupted my hard drive, paid the extra five dollars to upgrade to new.
2a.)Yes it is, but some people do it anyway. Personally, Sony could have pulled a Steam and reduced prices of as much stuff as possible by 50% when they reduced the licenses by 60%, higher unit price, lower total price. Might have increased digital sales.
2b.)I'll probably go retro if that's the case. I can't stand the childish behavior of companies these days.
2c.)Learn to work with a smaller budget. There have been a number of games over the years that prove you don't need a huge budget to be a massive success. Yes, it's nice to have games that had a lot of resources put into them, but those games should be spread out so people don't take them for granted.
3.)Well, it doesn't have to be a complete surprise. Just keep things quiet until they feel like they are ready to show something off. Heck, they could use a code name like Sega did with Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode 1. This might have been part of what Duke Nukem Forever did wrong.
4.)And who's to say they aren't paranoid and think they are still losing money to used game sales? Maybe seeing them being able to shove consumer around will make them think they can do so even more. In my opinion, karma caught up to THQ. Hate to see what it does to EA and Sony.
5.)I'd be a little upset, but I'd not act like a spoil little child over it.
6.) I'd recommend them mimicking Nintendo and GOG. Treat customers right, not make them jump through more hoops for your paranoia. Nintendo has Club Nintendo to get people to buy new, while GOG makes used games feel like VHS takes and their downloads are DVDs. Here's a link to show you what I mean: http://www.gog.com/gamecard/sam_max_save_the_world
Sony did take a step in the right direction with Cross Buy, but they are still acting children as long as they continue to use the online passes/single player lock content codes just to get people to buy new.

1) That's good. Now if we can only get everyone else to do it too.

2a) Could. But if you stop and think about it, consoles are going the same route PC gaming has gone. One time use codes come first, then DD shift, followed by the Steam like service. Everything is progressing naturally to be honest.

2b) If that's what you want to do, to live in the past, more power to you.

2c) That's the thing though, most companies are putting out one big game every other year or so. On their books, it is fairly spread out. The over abundance would be from there being an abundance of game developers trying to get their piece of the pie.

3) True. Who knows, maybe it would work, maybe it won't. But even if they do things like that for, say, the next Battlefield, the second the real name pops up, expectations shoot through the ceiling.

4) We'll never know until used games have been put back in their place as bargain bin shopping.

5) So, you'd give up on making the maximum profit on your games and would just let those millions float by? If yes, then you'd be a terrible CEO for a major corporation.

6) And Nintendo's little trick isn't ending used sales, is it? Nintendo is being kind to their customers and there are still thousands of customers who walk all over Nintendo and act as if they're entitled to get whatever Nintendo puts out for as little money as possible.

Though, I do support DD only so long as they give us the HDD space on default models. But then there are people who are going to complain about that (as if they already aren't) because they want everything to stay the exact same way things were for the PS2 and before.
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#235ElBorak77Posted 1/8/2013 4:00:00 AM
i'm poor.
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#236kupo1705Posted 1/8/2013 4:01:52 AM
Because it's cheaper.
Why pay more for the same?
#237Magnum_DanPosted 1/8/2013 7:28:58 AM(edited)
I use to reserve games at gamestop allot. But now that the game industry seams to crank out 5 horrible games for every good one, I no longer trust game makers to give me what I pay for. So I either rent first or take advantage of gamestop's return policy on used games.

Now and then I'll reserve something. I'll probably reserve Tales of Xillia since the Tales series has yet to let me down even once. But even that I realize is a gamble.

I'll start buying brand new when game developers start earning my trust.

Square is the one exception. 2 days after Final Fantasy XIII came out, I vowed to never again give square a penny and I have held true to that. If I get a Square game, I get it used.
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#238Jinzo 111887Posted 1/8/2013 10:17:12 AM(edited)
From: calhoun1389 | #234
1) That's good. Now if we can only get everyone else to do it too.

2a) Could. But if you stop and think about it, consoles are going the same route PC gaming has gone. One time use codes come first, then DD shift, followed by the Steam like service. Everything is progressing naturally to be honest.

2b) If that's what you want to do, to live in the past, more power to you.

2c) That's the thing though, most companies are putting out one big game every other year or so. On their books, it is fairly spread out. The over abundance would be from there being an abundance of game developers trying to get their piece of the pie.

3) True. Who knows, maybe it would work, maybe it won't. But even if they do things like that for, say, the next Battlefield, the second the real name pops up, expectations shoot through the ceiling.

4) We'll never know until used games have been put back in their place as bargain bin shopping.

5) So, you'd give up on making the maximum profit on your games and would just let those millions float by? If yes, then you'd be a terrible CEO for a major corporation.

6) And Nintendo's little trick isn't ending used sales, is it? Nintendo is being kind to their customers and there are still thousands of customers who walk all over Nintendo and act as if they're entitled to get whatever Nintendo puts out for as little money as possible.

7.)Though, I do support DD only so long as they give us the HDD space on default models. But then there are people who are going to complain about that (as if they already aren't) because they want everything to stay the exact same way things were for the PS2 and before.

1.)Maybe they need used games to corrupt their hard drives like what happened to me.
2a.)Well, let's not forget what PC game's biggest problem is: Piracy. If they consoles to be PCs, they better be prepared to deal with pirates illegal downloading and cracking their games. If properly hacked and cracked, they would have no reason to actually go out and buy the game.
2b.)Seeing as how crappy the future is starting to look, I get the feeling it is the better alternative. Anyway, it's not like going all digital will stop the preowned market. I remember reading about Europe legalizing preowned digital games. There are some places online that sell preowned digital games, too.
2c.)Which is there problem, High budget games should be more rare, which might help people appreciate them more.
3.) Well, at least they'd have some time to show something on which the expectations can be based on.
4.)Which does provide a scary thought.
5.)I'd prefer to maintain the image of dignity and professionalism. A good image can be pretty power.
6.)It didn't help Nintendo? That's funny, I remember the Wii outselling both the PS3 and Xbox 360.
7.)Digital needs to be done like GOG does it, if you ask me. VIP treatment, no DRM to interfere with purchased games, nothing to keep you from backing up games or redownloading purchases, etc. Only thing GOG needs is prepaid cards/gift cards. Of course, one problem with digital is that things can easily vanish. Donkey Kong Country on Virtual Console and Second Sight on Steam and GOG are a couple examples of what I mean. I also think Digital needs to settle HDD issues, transferability across generations, and needs to be cheaper since things like packaging, manuals, disc, middle men, and shipping are removed from the costs.
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At least Nintendo and Good Old Games are treating customers right instead of taking them for granted. They provide light during dark times.
#239calhoun1389Posted 1/8/2013 11:14:18 AM
1) Would be a very amusing day on this board.

2a) True, but when PS3 had potential (or actual, I forget) piracy problems, they fixed the issue and people complained to hell and back. So long as they don't open the systems up too much, piracy shouldn't be too big an issue.

2b) Let's just call it, personal opinion. I'm very much looking forward to the future in gaming. I don't see it as being half as bad as people play it out here. As for used digital games, eh. They can have fun with that. Regardless of it being legalized, it doesn't mean DRM is becoming illegal.

2c) Yeah, but what are you going to do about it. It's like telling the car companies that someone needs to stop trying to compete with the other sports cars. It's not going to happen so long as there is a large consumer base for it.

3) Yeah, but look at GTA5. All we have is one trailer and a bunch of screencaps and people are going apes*** about it.

4) Differentiating opinions.

5) That's good, maybe you should give it a shot, running a company.

6) I didn't say it didn't help them, I said it didn't end used sales for their consoles. All that Nintendo is doing to keep their fans loyal and happy, and yet Gamestop is still getting used sales from DS, Gamecube and Wii titles.

7) Agreed.
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#240RomanBlade00Posted 1/8/2013 11:56:31 AM
There are other places than just EB/Gamestop to buy used games you know.
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