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Why do people say FFXIII is just "mash x" ?

#91deprofundis442Posted 1/25/2013 12:27:18 PM
RyuuHou25 posted...
And your argument is a thin technicality.

If you can get by pressing a single button 80% more than directionals or any of the other face buttons, that's considered a game where you simply mash that button, in order to win.

We're not literally saying "DUDE, YOU JUST PRESS X CONSTANTLY AND THAT'S IT! NOTHING ELSE!"

The fact you're taking it that literally and then creating a technicality out of that assumption in order to provide an argument should show you have no leg to stand on here. You're creating things out of nothingness.

People are well aware you have to use the other buttons as well, but the main one you press, and you can press it a lot to slot in all the attacks/spells in the blink of an eye, again and again and again and again until you win and use no thought besides "Yeah yeah, just press x on attack over and over, shift your paradigm once in awhile, win....can we move on please game"

In older games, you used the directionals just as much as the button(s) designated for confirming attacks. Not so in this one, it's not required, it's optional.



But I barely used the d pad in older games at all. Aside from boss fights I literally held down the X button for entire battles. It's hardly different at all.
#92king_maddenPosted 1/25/2013 1:25:05 PM
deprofundis442 posted...
RyuuHou25 posted...
And your argument is a thin technicality.

If you can get by pressing a single button 80% more than directionals or any of the other face buttons, that's considered a game where you simply mash that button, in order to win.

We're not literally saying "DUDE, YOU JUST PRESS X CONSTANTLY AND THAT'S IT! NOTHING ELSE!"

The fact you're taking it that literally and then creating a technicality out of that assumption in order to provide an argument should show you have no leg to stand on here. You're creating things out of nothingness.

People are well aware you have to use the other buttons as well, but the main one you press, and you can press it a lot to slot in all the attacks/spells in the blink of an eye, again and again and again and again until you win and use no thought besides "Yeah yeah, just press x on attack over and over, shift your paradigm once in awhile, win....can we move on please game"

In older games, you used the directionals just as much as the button(s) designated for confirming attacks. Not so in this one, it's not required, it's optional.



But I barely used the d pad in older games at all. Aside from boss fights I literally held down the X button for entire battles. It's hardly different at all.


Im not sure what FF games you played but i can tell you just pressing X and nothing else in 7 and 10, wouldnt get you far.
#93KaiKun91Posted 1/25/2013 1:36:17 PM
It also involve changing your Paradigm. That part of it is also strategy.
#94tiornysPosted 1/25/2013 1:55:16 PM
Selecting your team composition and leader are also important pieces of strategy that most gamers neglect. As soon as you say, "This is the team I'm using for the rest of the game," you lock yourself out of some major strategic potential.

And speaking of paradigms, another thing that gamers do is say, "This is my paradigm deck for the chapter/game," which hampers their strategic potential in two ways. First, they lock themselves out of changing their paradigm deck to better suit a given battle, which is the most important strategic consideration outside of battle. Second, since their paradigm deck is intended to handle everything up to and including bosses, it only has a couple of paradigms that are any good against most wandering encounters (too much defense, not enough offense).

t~
#95Seifer_usPosted 1/25/2013 6:22:13 PM
tiornys posted...
Out of curiosity, what's your argument against the battle system? Because I don't at all agree that it's weak, as noted above.

t~


Well, first let me clarify that I don't absolutely hate the game, but it's my second least favorite Final Fantasy title after II.

Here are my problems with the battle system:

- It's oriented towards being fast-paced, so the option to put in actions one at a time quickly becomes extraneous. My memory of the game is a bit fuzzy since it's literally been since the end of 2009 that I played it, but I don't recall needing to put in actions manually for the majority of the latter half of the game.

- The ranking is fairly unimportant. Five-star rankings don't really offer rewards that are worth the effort. It doesn't really give you any motivation to do better in battles when the rewards are only slightly better for a five-star rank as opposed to a three-star rank.

- The need to "transition" into battle seems unnecessary. This is obviously a memory issue because they devoted so many resources to graphics that they couldn't display large groups of enemies along with all three party members at the same time and thereby create a smooth transition. A minor quibble, but after Final Fantasy XII's seamless combat, it was somewhat disappointing.

- The need to "break" enemies before being able to deal large amounts of damage makes minor battles take longer than they need to. If they had made it so that only certain creatures needed to be broken, it might have been acceptable; but every creature in the game requiring it makes generic battles take longer than they should and slows down the overall pacing of the game. It's like taking the Pudding's from FFIV and making every enemy in the game require the same tactic of blasting them with magic in order to defeat them. I don't know about you, but if every enemy in FFIV was a variety of Pudding I don't think I'd have ever been able to finish the game.

- The paradigm system is a fine idea, but for a large portion of the game, much of it is locked out to you, and even when everything becomes available there really isn't a lot of variety in it. Early in the game, it's pretty much Blaster to Attacker and occasionally Healer if you need it and that pattern doesn't even change much later on in the game either. The only time you even need the other ability sets is for (some) bosses and maybe the mission based enemies.


Anyway, for me, I just saw the battle system as a huge step backward from what Final Fantasy XII offered. I've been playing these games since the NES era, and change has never bothered me, because it's an inherent part of what the series is about. The thing is, that change should be a forward progression of what worked in previous titles. I just found Final Fantasy XIII lacking. But honestly, I could have accepted the battle system if the other aspects of the game had been more engrossing. The problem with XIII is that it has so many problems in other areas. The sense of scope, the writing, and the music, all felt weak. It wasn't an absolutely terrible game, but it was fairly mediocre; and that's sad considering it had the potential to be so much more than that.

Now, also understand that I'm fine with a lot of people liking the game. That's great. More power to you. Everyone's tastes differ. I'm not here to defend or attack the game, but I will give my opinion when asked, which is what I've done here.
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#96digidevilwilPosted 1/25/2013 6:49:48 PM
And its funny that just needing to mash X still makes this harder than any FF before, or at least harder than the hipster installments (7 and up)
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#97vind3dPosted 1/25/2013 6:56:04 PM
Yes, FFXIII is more than must mash X. You also have to push the movement stick forward to progress through the map.
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#98StickyJumperPosted 1/25/2013 7:20:59 PM
tiornys posted...
StickyJumper posted...
I mashed X/auto-battle up until the end boss of Ch11, that was the first real roadblock where i had to play manually

Impaired Medic posted...
I disagree. I played the game (you can verify that by checking my PSN) and the majority of the game is press X for auto-battle.

And were either of you bored with your button mashing?

t~


to be honest i didn't mind it, i felt the battles went way too fast for manual input to be effective (unless i put it on Slow, which i didn't want to)

it let me enjoy other aspects of the game instead of having to think hard about the battles (although ff13 was disappointing all round)
#99tiornysPosted 1/25/2013 7:54:22 PM
StickyJumper posted...
to be honest i didn't mind it, i felt the battles went way too fast for manual input to be effective (unless i put it on Slow, which i didn't want to)

I found that with a little practice, it became easy to input manual commands fast enough to enter a command string while my ATB bar was filling. This meant I only used Auto-battle on preemptive strikes and some ATB refreshes (when I couldn't repeat a previous command string).

With a lot of practice, I'm now fast enough that it's usually worth it for me to use manual input over Auto-battle even when my ATB bar is already full.

Seifer_us posted...
Here are my problems with the battle system:

- It's oriented towards being fast-paced, so the option to put in actions one at a time quickly becomes extraneous. My memory of the game is a bit fuzzy since it's literally been since the end of 2009 that I played it, but I don't recall needing to put in actions manually for the majority of the latter half of the game.

Thanks for the straightforward reply. I'm going to address your points where I think you've drawn conclusions based on incomplete or incorrect information. This point I've partially addressed, in my comments about the feasibility of manual entry. As far as the advantages, I'd have to write multiple posts to cover everything. In short, I can list AI deficiencies for every role, meaning that I can almost always gain in efficiency through manual entry. I can also list numerous effective strategies that are impractical or impossible with Auto-battle.

As far as ranking, scoring 5-stars does quintuple your chance at a rare drop, but I agree that's not a huge reward. That part of FFXIII is better suited to players like me who want to excel for the sake of excellence.

- The need to "break" enemies before being able to deal large amounts of damage makes minor battles take longer than they need to.
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Early in the game, it's pretty much Blaster to Attacker and occasionally Healer if you need it and that pattern doesn't even change much later on in the game either. The only time you even need the other ability sets is for (some) bosses and maybe the mission based enemies.

Here's where I think the biggest disconnect is, and these two issues are related. The perceived need to stagger all enemies stems from three factors: underestimating the power of buffs and debuffs, underestimating the Commando role, and failing to realize that building chain multiplies damage even if you don't build up all the way to stagger.

In essence, you're correct that killing enemies in any reasonable time frame requires you to boost your damage output. But you're wrong that the chain gauge is the only means to provide that boost. Buffs and debuffs can combine to multiply your damage by as much as 520% against most enemies. That's about twice as much damage boosting as you get from staggering an enemy with a lowish stagger point, and over half the full potential of the chain gauge. Most wandering encounters can be rapidly defeated by employing specific buffs and/or debuffs alongside heavy COM presence--no staggering required.

For a more explicit breakdown, see post 56 in this thread: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/681990-lightning-returns-final-fantasy-xiii/65038417

But honestly, I could have accepted the battle system if the other aspects of the game had been more engrossing. The problem with XIII is that it has so many problems in other areas.

Ironically, I find that I can forgive the quibbles I have with XIII because of its battle system (although I think I also liked the music, story, and characters more than you did). The linked thread also contains my thoughts why so many people overlook the battle system's depth and complexity.

t~
#100SlaynWilderGL3Posted 1/25/2013 8:07:20 PM
I literally beat the game by just smashing x, so..... If somebody ever ask me whats the key to beat that game I will answer, smash X or A.
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