This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.

Do you guys think the PS4 will include an HDMI cable right out of the box?

#101EoinPosted 1/28/2013 3:45:04 AM(edited)
calhoun1389 posted...
The fact that consoles are made primarily to connect to TV sets is why people using monitors is irrelevant. You pay extra to get the system to connect to something it wasn't originally intended to connect to.

Consoles are designed to connect to a display. That does not specifically have to be a TV. If I really wanted to make a point as incredibly weak as this, I could say "consoles are made primarily to connect to HDTVs, which is why people using SDTVs are irrelevant, you pay extra to get the system to connect to SDTVs".

(Please note that I am not actually making this point, I am merely illustrating how self-defeating it is for you to try to make the equivalent of it).

calhoun1389 posted...
And your claim that everyone who doesn't have an HDTV has an HD monitor is complete bollocks.

I never said that, or anything like it. Please respond to what I've actually said, instead of what you have merely strangely imagined me to have said.

calhoun1389 posted...
The whole point is that Sony should cater to the lowest common denominator, which is composite. Until the day that HDMI ports are the lowest common denominator for televisions, they should not be treated as if they were.

There are plenty of displays without composite. Monitors don't have composite in. Most European TVs until recently didn't have composite inputs. There is no lowest common denominator.

calhoun1389 posted...
Same could be said about people with HDTV/Monitors and HDMI cables.

Yes, but that doesn't help your argument.

calhoun1389 posted...
Additionally, not including composite would cause Sony to lose the sales from SDTV users since the system wouldn't be out-of-the-box compatible with their TVswhile the same can't be said for if they continue to use composites since composite cables are compatible with 99% of TVs on the market.

That's merely speculation. You can't account for how many sales would be lost if a composite cable weren't included. How many Wii U sales are being lost, right now, because of the same thing? Complaints about it lacking a composite cable effectively don't exist. Equally, you cannot say for certain that no sales will be lost if a HDMI cable isn't included. You're just guessing.
#102EoinPosted 1/28/2013 3:44:04 AM
calhoun1389 posted...
Monitors, again, don't matter since they aren't what consoles are made to be used on.

Just so you know, this point doesn't get stronger the more you repeat it.

calhoun1389 posted...
You made a claim that they were cheap

I said no such thing. Seriously, can you please make the minimal effort required to read and understand my points? I said that they were a "cheap alternative" to HDTVs, which they are. They're cheap as an alternative.

calhoun1389 posted...
There's literally no excuse (with the current economy and with current triple digit prices of HDTVs and monitors) to believe that no one on Earth should still have an SDTV.

Again: if you think I wrote that no one on Earth should still have an SDTV, you are purely imagining it. I have never, and would never, say that, or anything like that. I'm not making up things and pretending that you've said them.
#103calhoun1389Posted 1/28/2013 4:10:56 AM
From: Eoin | #101
Consoles are designed to connect to a display.

Primarily TVs since the beginning days of home consoles. There's a reason you couldn't connect the N64, PS2, or SNES to a computer without getting a special after market attachment. It always has been and TVs are still what companies are marketing their systems to be used one. Likewise, monitors are also primarily marketed for use with computers.

I never said that, or anything like it. Please respond to what I've actually said, instead of what you have merely strangely imagined me to have said.

You said, and I quote "people who couldn't afford a HDTV bought the next best thing - a monitor with a HDMI input." Just because some have, doesn't mean most have. 99.999% of people who have a home at the very least owns a SDTV, therefore, they should still be included as opposed to maybe the 10-20% who bought monitors for console gaming.

There are plenty of displays without composite. Monitors don't have composite in. Most European TVs until recently didn't have composite inputs. There is no lowest common denominator.

Monitors aren't going to matter, no matter how much you want to bring them up. And yes, there is. It may vary from country to country, but there is one for each region. In the US, that lowest common denominator is composite. But you're somewhat right, there is no universal lowest common denominator.

And before EU TVs got composite, what pretell did the systems ship with to connect? More than likely it shipped with cables compatible with whatever the lowest common denominator was in EU.

That's merely speculation. You can't account for how many sales would be lost if a composite cable weren't included. How many Wii U sales are being lost, right now, because of the same thing? Complaints about it lacking a composite cable effectively don't exist. Equally, you cannot say for certain that no sales will be lost if a HDMI cable isn't included. You're just guessing.

Sure it's a guess, but it's an educated guess. People who's TVs aren't compatible with the PS4 likely aren't getting the PS4. It's very simple logic.
---
http://digitalmasters.4umotion.com/ Join and make friends.
My Anime List: http://tinyurl.com/c6ylh9y (Updates regularly)
#104calhoun1389Posted 1/28/2013 4:11:09 AM
From: Eoin | #102
I said no such thing. Seriously, can you please make the minimal effort required to read and understand my points? I said that they were a "cheap alternative" to HDTVs, which they are. They're cheap as an alternative

You're wrong. The cheap alternative to HDTVs is SDTVs. For something to be a cheap alternative, it has to be cheap in the first place.

Again: if you think I wrote that no one on Earth should still have an SDTV, you are purely imagining it. I have never, and would never, say that, or anything like that. I'm not making up things and pretending that you've said them.

That's what the discussion was before you jumped in and took their side. If you don't want to inherit their points, you should have stated beforehand that you disagree with their points.
---
http://digitalmasters.4umotion.com/ Join and make friends.
My Anime List: http://tinyurl.com/c6ylh9y (Updates regularly)
#105EoinPosted 1/28/2013 4:36:24 AM
calhoun1389 posted...
Primarily TVs since the beginning days of home consoles.

So? That's no longer the case.

calhoun1389 posted...
You said, and I quote "people who couldn't afford a HDTV bought the next best thing - a monitor with a HDMI input."

Yes, I said that, and it's nothing like what you wrongly claimed I said. In fact, in your attempt to pull out a quote from me that even vaguely matched up to your ridiculous claim, you of course misquoted me, ripping out an important part. I said:

"lots of people who couldn't afford a HDTV bought the next best thing"

This is not, and cannot possibly be interpreted to mean, the same as saying "everyone has either a HDTV or a monitor". It just can't.

calhoun1389 posted...
Monitors aren't going to matter, no matter how much you want to bring them up.

Yeah, we've already established that you believe the people using them magically don't count. You repeating that over and over just makes my point stronger.

calhoun1389 posted...
And before EU TVs got composite, what pretell did the systems ship with to connect? More than likely it shipped with cables compatible with whatever the lowest common denominator was in EU.

Firstly, it's "pray tell", not "pretell". If you want to sound pretentious, at least make the effort to get it right.

Secondly, before composite was common, consoles shipped with RF or composite through SCART. The most standard cable for TVs in Europe (which you have weirdly conflated with "the EU" - they are not the same thing) is still RF, yet no console has shipped with an RF cable since the Dreamcast.

calhoun1389 posted...
Sure it's a guess, but it's an educated guess. People who's TVs aren't compatible with the PS4 likely aren't getting the PS4. It's very simple logic.

And again, I could score a cheap point by saying "people with SDTVs likely aren't getting the PS4, it's very simple logic". Instead of doing that, however, I'm merely going to point out that you're still just speculating.
#106EoinPosted 1/28/2013 4:36:28 AM
calhoun1389 posted...
You're wrong. The cheap alternative to HDTVs is SDTVs. For something to be a cheap alternative, it has to be cheap in the first place.

What are you not getting here. For someone who already has an SDTV and wants a HD display, SDTVs obviously aren't a cheap alternative. They aren't any kind of alternative.

calhoun1389 posted...
That's what the discussion was before you jumped in and took their side. If you don't want to inherit their points, you should have stated beforehand that you disagree with their points.

No, sorry, that's stupid. I'm a different person, I don't magically inherit arguments just because you've deluded yourself into believing that everyone arguing against you has one entirely homogeneous set of viewpoints.

Since you are having an extremely difficult time actually determining what I'm saying, allow me to restate things as clearly as possible:

1. It is good to accommodate as many people as possible in terms of cable options.
2. This means including a composite cable is a good idea.
3. It also means that including a HDMI cable is equally a good idea.

So the point is simple: you cannot stand up and say "Include cables for everyone" and then say "But not actually everyone". If you think excluding people is a good idea, then it severely weakens your case when you try to argue against others who want to exclude another slightly different group of people.
#107XWolfOPosted 1/28/2013 4:39:58 AM
Wii U has it, I'm sure Sony can do it too. Even if it's a cheap one. There's no excuse not to include it.
---
It's-a me!
#108white windPosted 1/28/2013 5:14:57 AM
not adding any is better than adding the cheap cable from the last decade, what was it called again?
---
PSN: ghattas
#109Trespasser2003Posted 1/28/2013 5:56:36 AM
If something with three digits is considered expensive, what in the name of all that is good and holy are you doing buying a ps4?! How are you going to afford the games? Accessories? Go buy some groceries for your starving family.
---
scott came. ugly face so killed him. 4// itchy. tasty.
#110calhoun1389Posted 1/28/2013 6:02:30 AM
From: Eoin | #105
So? That's no longer the case.

Then prove it. Show me 5 console ads that show their systems being used on monitors instead of television sets. Or, how about instruction manuals that explain how to connect the system to a monitor. I know for a fact that that PS3 instruction manuals specifically mention use with a TV set. As a matter of fact, allow me to fetch my PS3 instruction manuals and present, word for word, how they instruct one to install the systems.

80GB Playstation 3 Quick Reference Manual
Step 1: Connect to a TV
Video Output on the PS3 system
The PS3 system can output to two types of resolution: HD and SD. Refer to the instruction manual for the TV in use to check which video mode is supported.


160GB Slim Playstation 3 Quick Start Guide
Install System: HDMI cable (sold seperately) and compatible TV are required for High Definition output.

1. Connect your system to a TV
Connect the AV cable to the AV MULTI OUT connector on the PS3 system and the corresponding colored inputs on your TV.

Power on the TV and set the display to the appropriate input that the AV cable is connected to.


250GB Super Slim PS3 Quick Start Guide
Connection and Setup
1. Connect your PS3 system to a TV.
For high definition, connection your TV and the PS3 system using an HDMI cable (sold seperately).

2. Turn on the TV and then select the appropriate input.

3. Press the power button to turn on the PS3 system.
If video is not displayed, turn off the PS3 system, and then turn it on again by pressing the power button for at least 5 seconds (until the system beeps a second time).

4. Press the PS button on the wireless controller.

5. Follow the on-screen instructions to perform the initial setup.


Notice how they specifically stated "TV"? Yeah, that's because you're supposed to use a TV with your home console. As far as Sony's instruction manuals are concerned, the primary display for the PS3 is a television set (not even HDTV, just TVs in general), not a monitor or other type of display. If you were right, and TVs weren't still the primary intended display for home consoles, the manuals would say "display" not "TV."

Secondly, before composite was common, consoles shipped with RF or composite through SCART. The most standard cable for TVs in Europe (which you have weirdly conflated with "the EU" - they are not the same thing) is still RF, yet no console has shipped with an RF cable since the Dreamcast.

Standard is not the same as lowest common denominator. Regardless, the point was that they shipped the consoles to stores with everything the commonwealth needed to just take their systems out, plug them in and play. Shipping with only the HDMI cables here in the US means that several million people will have to go out and buy an add-on attachment just to play the system. I guess it would be somewhat acceptable if the SDTV users were only about 1% of all people in the US, but the fact remains that only 2/3 of the US population has an HDTV in their home... that means there are roughly 100mil people who don't have one. Not 100 people, not 1,000 not 100,000, but 100,000,000 people still using SDTVs.
---
http://digitalmasters.4umotion.com/ Join and make friends.
My Anime List: http://tinyurl.com/c6ylh9y (Updates regularly)