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Do you guys think the PS4 will include an HDMI cable right out of the box?

#131EoinPosted 1/29/2013 1:06:23 PM
king_madden posted...
Exactly you cant have both sides, but the majority have a sdtv, then a hdtv, which BOTH can use composite. systems come with one cord, you go with what can fit the wider audience. yes the people with monitors will have to buy a $5-$10 cord, but id rather have a handful miss out over the masses.

The "wider audience" is speculation though. The majority might have an SDTV (or not, you have stated it without proof and it's rather unconvincing), but how many PS4 customers will, compared to a HD display of some kind? How relevant is it that composite works on HD displays when nobody who has a HD display is going to want to hook up a composite cable? If it turns out that 98% of the PS4's audience is using a display that can take composite, but 90% are going to prefer HDMI, then which is better - giving 90% of people the cable that they want and making 8% get a cable from elsewhere, or giving 98% of people a cable that they don't want, and making 90% of them get a cable from elsewhere?

There is also a worrying amount of anecdotal evidence of people who connect their machines to their displays using whatever cables they get, and not worrying about the best picture. There are people happily playing their PS3s on nice shiny HD displays using 480i through a composite cable because that's what the machine came with, and if the PS4 only comes with composite cables, that's going to happen again. Perhaps not in large numbers, but it'll happen for sure. Including a HDMI cable would avoid that.
#132king_maddenPosted 1/29/2013 2:10:42 PM
Eoin posted...
king_madden posted...
Exactly you cant have both sides, but the majority have a sdtv, then a hdtv, which BOTH can use composite. systems come with one cord, you go with what can fit the wider audience. yes the people with monitors will have to buy a $5-$10 cord, but id rather have a handful miss out over the masses.

The "wider audience" is speculation though. The majority might have an SDTV (or not, you have stated it without proof and it's rather unconvincing), but how many PS4 customers will, compared to a HD display of some kind? How relevant is it that composite works on HD displays when nobody who has a HD display is going to want to hook up a composite cable? If it turns out that 98% of the PS4's audience is using a display that can take composite, but 90% are going to prefer HDMI, then which is better - giving 90% of people the cable that they want and making 8% get a cable from elsewhere, or giving 98% of people a cable that they don't want, and making 90% of them get a cable from elsewhere?

There is also a worrying amount of anecdotal evidence of people who connect their machines to their displays using whatever cables they get, and not worrying about the best picture. There are people happily playing their PS3s on nice shiny HD displays using 480i through a composite cable because that's what the machine came with, and if the PS4 only comes with composite cables, that's going to happen again. Perhaps not in large numbers, but it'll happen for sure. Including a HDMI cable would avoid that.



if no one wants a composite display, then they can get cables, OR just use the cables they already have from their ps3. (if they are that worried about video and best possible picture, they either already have one or have no problem getting one.) as for your percentages, people who "want" will get, regardless. fact remains if you dont include composite, there will be people who get home and cant use it at all because their tv doesnt support hdmi at all, its not a matter of whether or not they want to use it, its giving consumers the option.

as for your second paragraph, you said it yourself those people dont care what their picture looks like, so why is that a problem? they can look anywhere on the box, or a store, or a website, or game case, and see the picture could look better with hdmi cables. if they dont have the cables, its because they dont care about the picture enough.
#133EoinPosted 1/29/2013 2:21:21 PM
king_madden posted...
if no one wants a composite display, then they can get cables, OR just use the cables they already have from their ps3.

Why is it somehow okay to expect people who want to use HDMI to have to re-use old cables (which might still be needed) but not somehow okay to expect people who want to use composite to have to re-use old cables?

Any argument you make about excluding HDMI

king_madden posted...
fact remains if you dont include composite, there will be people who get home and cant use it at all because their tv doesnt support hdmi at all, its not a matter of whether or not they want to use it, its giving consumers the option.

What are you not getting?

Where you you ever, at any point in this topic, seen me suggest that the console shouldn't have a composite cable?

How many times do I have to repeat myself? Including cables is good. You've never seen me say that there shouldn't be composite cables and you never will, so I am just really confused that after I have said that several times, including specifically and directly to you, you still somehow think I'm saying that the PS4 shouldn't include composite. Honestly, I am actually curious as to where this mistaken impression is coming from, because I know for sure that it's not coming from my posts.

king_madden posted...
as for your second paragraph, you said it yourself those people dont care what their picture looks like, so why is that a problem?

Why isn't it a problem? Give people the best picture possible. If they're happy with a worse picture then it's not like they'll be unhappy with a better one. There's no point whatsoever - and no benefit to Sony or anyone else in the world - in having people getting an inferior picture through ignorance.
#134king_maddenPosted 1/29/2013 2:27:43 PM
so what are you arguing? its going to be one or the other, highly doubt they would give both, so since you made such a stance against giving composite one could only assume you are in favor of giving hdmi.

if they dont care about picture, then they dont care whether you give them hdmi or composite so it doesnt matter. you're making a case for the people who dont even care either way.

as for the cables, again, you go for the cable that will fit the most tvs. if they want to upgrade they can, if they dont they dont have to, give them the option. dont force them.
#135EoinPosted 1/29/2013 2:38:11 PM(edited)
king_madden posted...
so what are you arguing?

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but I've written this already, several times. I am simply not going to repeat myself endlessly.

king_madden posted...
its going to be one or the other, highly doubt they would give both, so since you made such a stance against giving composite one could only assume you are in favor of giving hdmi.

It might have been understandable (wrong, but understandable) to assume that I was arguing against composite if I had not already said otherwise multiple times.

Look at this from my point of view - I've said at least half a dozen times that I'm in favour of inclusivity in terms of cables, and now here you are saying "oh, well I just randomly assumed for no reason whatsoever that even though you repeatedly said you wanted inclusivity, really you mean the exact opposite".

king_madden posted...
if they dont care about picture, then they dont care whether you give them hdmi or composite so it doesnt matter. you're making a case for the people who dont even care either way.

Most of this set of people do care, they just trust that the cable they get is the best cable, plug that in, get a picture that they're happy with, and never wonder whether it could be massively better.

king_madden posted...
as for the cables, again, you go for the cable that will fit the most tvs. if they want to upgrade they can, if they dont they dont have to, give them the option. dont force them.

So you are attempting to argue that including a HDMI cable is "forcing" people to upgrade, but not including a HDMI cable is "giving them the option"? That's a real argument that you really feel is a strong point against including HDMI?
#136MegaMettaurPosted 1/29/2013 2:38:15 PM
Eoin posted...
king_madden posted...
I dont even know why Eoin is sticking with this "monitor" argument, they are the smallest group, no one should ever cater to the smallest group. just because you and your buddies might do it, doesnt mean everyone else is. monitors dont even have cable connection do they?

Firstly, I don't use a monitor, and I have no idea why you have blindly assumed that I do.

Secondly, I have already explained my argument, multiple times. The person I am arguing with feels that it is wrong to exclude some people (by not including composite cables) but magically perfectly okay to exclude other people (by not including HDMI cables). He can't have both sides of this argument. Either the cables should be as inclusive as possible (therefore a HDMI cable should be included) or else it's totally fine to exclude people (in which case he cannot argue against people who feel that composite cables should be excluded).

That is all I'm saying, and it's really not that hard to understand, despite your self-admitted failure in doing so.


the problem is that you fail to understand that just about EVERY TV set is compatible with component cables, while monitors are not. Monitors aren't designed for video game consoles, so they shouldn't be catered to.
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#137EoinPosted 1/29/2013 2:40:51 PM
MegaMettaur posted...
the problem is that you fail to understand that just about EVERY TV set is compatible with component cables, while monitors are not. Monitors aren't designed for video game consoles, so they shouldn't be catered to.

Firstly, I don't "fail to understand" anything. Thanks for the pointlessly patronising attitude though.

Secondly, you mean "composite" when you say "component".

Thirdly, there is no real difference between the argument of "monitors aren't designed for video game consoles, they shouldn't be catered for" and the argument "SDTVs aren't designed for HD devices, they shouldn't be catered for". Both are equally terrible arguments.
#138regsantotomasPosted 1/29/2013 2:54:47 PM
Maybe PS4 will ship with coax and we will have to flip to channel 3 or 4 to get a picture

Yay for compatibility!
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#139agrissaPosted 1/29/2013 2:55:16 PM
LOL@the debates in this topic. You guys are arguing over absolutely nothing. Just wait till the PS4 is out then we'll see what cable comes with it. You guys don't work for Sony so your predictions are all guesses.
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#140king_maddenPosted 1/29/2013 3:05:07 PM
yes its an option, maybe you dont know what option means, if you dont give them an hdmi they have the option to buy extra cables, if you give hdmi then they have to buy.

the only argument ive seen you make is against adding just composite, then something about monitors that doesnt even fit, so again, you argue against one then you are for the other, there is no middle ground. if you dont want composite then you want hdmi. since it more than likely isnt going to be both.

bottom line remains, whichever one they add is fine, but it would suit more people if they used composite.

and im sorry, but unless they have been living under a rock and have never seen a picture of the game they are playing, or gameplay videos, then i seriously doubt there are many people out there who feel their sdtv with games that have blurry letters, or text they cant read is how the game is suppose to look.