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The Reason people shifted from JRPGs to Western RPGs. It isn't stupidity.

#91PhaseSlaethePosted 2/21/2013 5:54:23 PM
kupo1705 posted...


Because neither is clearly superior?
Or do you enjoy poorly written cliche filled crap starring a naked marine?

I'm not saying they should be exactly like Eastern games, but have you read the dialogue of some recent WRPGs?


Fixed. See how easy it is when you realize it is SUBJECTIVE?

I've found the best narrative experiences, TO ME, in what would be considered "J" games.
#92The_Zora_KingPosted 2/21/2013 5:54:54 PM
PhaseSlaethe posted...
The_Zora_King posted...
NineteenthCross posted...
digidevilwil posted...


It's a terrible and unrelatable unrealistic representation of friendship, and just flat out boring to experience. It's the one Tales game I simply could not finish. Tales stories have never been mind blowing, but Graces is just unacceptable on so many levels.


It's called fantasy. If people wanted realistic friendships they'd get real friends.


While fiction takes liberties with relationships, please still expect a degree of realism when it comes to these fictional stories. A lot of people complained about FFVIII's love story (which I enjoyed, personally, but most didn't) because they found it completely unrealistic. Should it be given a pass due to it being in a fictional universe? If video game stories want to develop, it shouldn't.


The love story was unrealistic because it was garbage to begin with. Nobody would find the brick wall that was Squall attractive.


And that goes along with his point. It doesn't make sense for them to be together, according to you. Therefore, it also doesn't make sense to make friendship pacts after knowing each other for five minutes.
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#93PhaseSlaethePosted 2/21/2013 5:55:51 PM
...What?

Being "in a relationship" =/= being friends.

Or are you one of "those" in real life?
#94kupo1705Posted 2/21/2013 5:55:53 PM
PhaseSlaethe posted...
kupo1705 posted...


Because neither is clearly superior?
Or do you enjoy poorly written cliche filled crap starring a naked marine?

I'm not saying they should be exactly like Eastern games, but have you read the dialogue of some recent WRPGs?


Fixed. See how easy it is when you realize it is SUBJECTIVE?

I've found the best narrative experiences, TO ME, in what would be considered "J" games.


Tell me what WRPGs stars a naked marine?

I found the narrative in most JRPGs to be dreadful.
Both new and old.
#95PhaseSlaethePosted 2/21/2013 5:56:27 PM
kupo1705 posted...
PhaseSlaethe posted...
kupo1705 posted...


Because neither is clearly superior?
Or do you enjoy poorly written cliche filled crap starring a naked marine?

I'm not saying they should be exactly like Eastern games, but have you read the dialogue of some recent WRPGs?


Fixed. See how easy it is when you realize it is SUBJECTIVE?

I've found the best narrative experiences, TO ME, in what would be considered "J" games.


Tell me what WRPGs stars a naked marine?

I found the narrative in most JRPGs to be dreadful.
Both new and old.


Then that is a YOU problem. Which is again, as I said, SUBJECTIVE.
#96Ampharos64Posted 2/21/2013 6:00:07 PM(edited)
digidevilwil posted...
It's not light hearted at all. It's poorly written and overly serious to be honest. It doesn't make any sense why everyone wants to die for everyone and why someone is making friendship pacts with people he met for 5 seconds over people he has known his whole life.

It's a terrible and unrelatable unrealistic representation of friendship, and just flat out boring to experience. It's the one Tales game I simply could not finish. Tales stories have never been mind blowing, but Graces is just unacceptable on so many levels.

I didn't find it so, maybe I just took the approach of not taking it too seriously (which it certainly isn't entirely, it just couldn't be with those skits). It's explained why Asbel makes the pact with Sophie and Richard - it's because he's known Cheria his whole life, and Hubert is his brother, that he says they don't need to make one. He's a (impulsive) kid, not hard to believe he'd do something like that. They'd also already been through quite a bit together when they made it, far from knowing each other for only five minutes. I do find Asbel almost entirely unbearable, but that still made sense, at least. I think, aggravating as his protect-complex is, it is shown to cause issues, and makes some sense considering his background - he's actually like this partly because he's terrified of losing someone again, which I think is a somewhat more interesting take on that type of hero. I find the dynamic they have as a group does mostly work to show friendship, regardless of the idea not always coming across well otherwise, at least.

Sophie is the only one who is that ready to sacrifice herself, and it's because it's her mission, which she was after all created and programmed for.
#97kupo1705Posted 2/21/2013 5:57:13 PM
PhaseSlaethe posted...
kupo1705 posted...
PhaseSlaethe posted...
kupo1705 posted...


Because neither is clearly superior?
Or do you enjoy poorly written cliche filled crap starring a naked marine?

I'm not saying they should be exactly like Eastern games, but have you read the dialogue of some recent WRPGs?


Fixed. See how easy it is when you realize it is SUBJECTIVE?

I've found the best narrative experiences, TO ME, in what would be considered "J" games.


Tell me what WRPGs stars a naked marine?

I found the narrative in most JRPGs to be dreadful.
Both new and old.


Then that is a YOU problem. Which is again, as I said, SUBJECTIVE.


No, the quality of writing is certainly not entirely subjective.
#98blankempathyPosted 2/21/2013 5:58:48 PM
I play jrpgs and wrpgs for different reasons. However In Wrpgs I tend to feel really disconnected to the world. Some games are an exception (dragon age origins) where I really cared about the characters and what was going on around them.
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#99Bayonetta_Posted 2/21/2013 6:00:12 PM
The_Zora_King posted...
NineteenthCross posted...
digidevilwil posted...


It's a terrible and unrelatable unrealistic representation of friendship, and just flat out boring to experience. It's the one Tales game I simply could not finish. Tales stories have never been mind blowing, but Graces is just unacceptable on so many levels.


It's called fantasy. If people wanted realistic friendships they'd get real friends.


While fiction takes liberties with relationships, please still expect a degree of realism when it comes to these fictional stories. A lot of people complained about FFVIII's love story (which I enjoyed, personally, but most didn't) because they found it completely unrealistic. Should it be given a pass due to it being in a fictional universe? If video game stories want to develop, it shouldn't.


Jrpgs have beta male relationships. The lead character doesn't get sex until 5 years after a married her. Hell most of them show no dominance or sexual interest in females at all. Jrpg men expect to be rewarded with hot girls just for being nice guys.

In Wrpgs like Mass Effect my boy Shepard banged Tali within a few weeks. Shep is confident, sexually aggressive and dominant.
#100NineteenthCrossPosted 2/21/2013 6:03:13 PM
kupo1705 posted...
Most JRPGs these days are otaku pandaring garbage, that has nothing to do with open worlds.


Depends on what JRPGs you are playing, if you're playing Trinity Universe and using it as the template to judge all other JRPGs you're out of your mind. ( As a person who actually liked the game, it's terrible fyi.)

Anyway. Let me be serious for a second.
If you do not want to read my wall of text because it's TL;DR , search *Nutshell with your ctrl+F function

This is what happened to JRPGS/WRPGS, I like to call it the great divide.
Both Genres divided into two distinct groups.

Side A of WRPGs/JRPGS
The quality side, that everyone ignores.
Examples : Valkyrie Profile, Alpha Protocol, The Original Shadowrun
To this date, no dialogue driven wrpg has equated to Alpha Protocol.

Mass Effect? Chock full of BUT SHEPARD, YOU MUST DO THIS and then Shepard was Master Chief.

Anything by Bethseda " OH HEY , LET ME BE AN EXTREME DOOR MAT OR A DOUCHE THERE IS NO INBETWEEN, EXCELLENT WRITING 10/10"


Side B of WRPGs/JRPGS
The intensely ******** side that everyone pays attention to, but they should not jesus christ. It's like that simpsons song JUST DON'T LOOK. STOP FEEDING THEM.

Examples : Mugen Souls, Trinity Universe, Fallout 3, Skyrim
These are part of the reason why RPGs have been set back in general. There's nothing good about them, but people claim there is.

This lead to the creation of of fanboys of one type to declare that the type they don't like exists solely of Side B. And then, there's the GLORIOUS DEFENSE OF TERRIBLE GAMES. It doesn't matter if it's a JRPG or WRPG. They're all RPGS at the core.


RPGs in general have degraded to the point people are arguging over which lump of crap is better without realizing they're arguing over two pieces of crap.
This is before someone replies with the classic smartass "well, this lump of crap is chunky while that one is smooth , therefore it's superior" logic.

So called open world RPGs with terrible dialogue and choices like the Fallout series post Black Isle. I like how the series went from 'think outside the box" to "if I want reward A, I need to be a jerk, if I want reward B, I need to be a doormat'

Mass Effect is no exemption either. "Shepard, you have to either be a mustache twirling jerk(ME1) or a stereotypical jrpg paladin who MUST DO WHAT EVER IS RIGHT FOR THE UNIVERSE USING THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP * BECAUSE THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP WILL PREVENT THE NORMADY'S BULKHEAD FROM RUPTURING EVEN IF YOU MAX IT OUT TO PREVENT IT * (ME2) or GREEEEEEEEN (ME3)"

*Nutshell
This entire post in a nutshell?

WRPGs and JRPGs have both become terrible in recent years. They all use the same conventions, rather than argue over what's bad and what isn't everyone should shut up and pay attention to the games that actually stand apart from their peerss.
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