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Agree/Disagree: Assassin's Creed IV should actually include CGI in the game

#31archizzyPosted 3/2/2013 5:13:07 PM
The whole point of CGI is to show a scene in higher detail than what's possible using the game's engine, and as a result, the scene is much more cinematic and memorable as well. I guess some people, like you, just don't like that.

A lot of people like him don't like that. I certainly don't.

Since you use the term cinematic have you ever been watching a blu-ray where there is a certain scene that is way way softer than any other scene and looks like DVD quality because they had to use a different portion from another print for the transfer?

It completely stands out to me and annoys me. Thankfully it isn't a common thing but it certainly exists.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to be watching a blu-ray that periodically just decided at different points in the film they will drop down to average quality and then throw in a reference quality scene here and there.

In that particular example I would rather watch an upscaled DVD on my Oppo player that keeps the same quality in tact from beginning to end instead of getting random reference quality shots thrown in from time to time.
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#32EoinPosted 3/2/2013 5:19:38 PM
theofficefan99 posted...
How is it a problem with today's games? 0_o In-game models match the CGI models perfectly.

No they don't. I'm unsure how you're even trying to make that argument while also trying to make an argument about the benefit of more detailed characters. These two things don't go together. More detail, or matching models: you can have one, but not both.

theofficefan99 posted...
Yeah, I don't like what DQIX did myself, but what Resonance of Fate and The Last Story did is quite good, no? I really don't see what's wrong with their approach.

How should I know? I haven't played either of those games. I do know that one of the games that you linked to earlier as a good example of CGI (Lost Odyssey) has probably the one of the worst gaps between CGI and game this generation - it starts off with swishy Matrixy sword fighting with tons of fast action and then segues into turn-based combat, and you're holding that up as one of the better examples, which is truly astonishing.
#33theofficefan99(Topic Creator)Posted 3/2/2013 7:20:16 PM
Eoin posted...
theofficefan99 posted...
How is it a problem with today's games? 0_o In-game models match the CGI models perfectly.

No they don't. I'm unsure how you're even trying to make that argument while also trying to make an argument about the benefit of more detailed characters. These two things don't go together. More detail, or matching models: you can have one, but not both.

theofficefan99 posted...
Yeah, I don't like what DQIX did myself, but what Resonance of Fate and The Last Story did is quite good, no? I really don't see what's wrong with their approach.

How should I know? I haven't played either of those games. I do know that one of the games that you linked to earlier as a good example of CGI (Lost Odyssey) has probably the one of the worst gaps between CGI and game this generation - it starts off with swishy Matrixy sword fighting with tons of fast action and then segues into turn-based combat, and you're holding that up as one of the better examples, which is truly astonishing.


Matching models. As in, the difference isn't jarring. Here's what I mean:

Let's compare Final Fantasy VII's in-game engine models with the pre-rendered CGI/FMV models.

Here, Cloud is chibi-like and blocky.

http://www.2d-x.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/final-fantasy-7-cloud-barret-elevator1.jpg

Here, Cloud has a much more realistically-proportioned model. It's like two different characters.

http://www.2d-x.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/final-fantasy-vii.jpg


Now let's fast-forward in time to Final Fantasy XIII.

Here, Snow has a realistically proportioned model.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HBHFE-coaGU/TvouErawY4I/AAAAAAAAKIc/LDMnaKEkc6s/s1600/snow+final+fantasy+XIII+xbox+360+crystal+lake+final+fantasy+13.jpg

Here, Snow also has a realistically proportioned model. Same exact art style. It's just basically a much more detailed version of himself.

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/McWiiWii/GAF/snow.png

That's what I mean when I say that the models match. It's not like how it was in previous gens when it'd be like a change in art style.

Yes, but that doesn't matter. I told you how Resonance of Fate and The Last Story incorporate pre-rendered CGI/FMV into the game while having main characters show up with their equipped costumes/weapons in cutscenes and in gameplay.

*sigh* you missed the point entirely. I didn't mention anything about the gameplay changing. I was talking about how the game switches from CGI to in-game. I wasn't talking about the gameplay. I don't even know why you brought it up. I was solely talking about how the game switches from CGI to in-game seamlessly. The camera swirls around Kaim and it switches from CGI to in-game in less than a second there, and I think it's really damn impressive how they did it.
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"Dyin' is easy. It's the livin' that's hard..." Grim Reaper, Maximo vs. The Army of Zin
#34EoinPosted 3/3/2013 4:23:57 AM
theofficefan99 posted...
Matching models. As in, the difference isn't jarring. Here's what I mean:

"Matching models" means that the models match. You're attempting to illustrate that with models that do not match. The FFXIII in-game model looks vastly different to the CGI model. It is an immediate, obvious difference, and nobody will ever confuse one for the other, so I do not see how you can pretend that they match. They just don't. In terms of the difference, they are probably separated by a console generation or more. It'd be like putting late-generation PS3 models in an early PS2 game. You're saying it's not jarring. I'm telling you, as fact, that it is. You may somehow not feel that way, but I and many, many others do, and regardless of how you feel, the fact that they don't match is plain and simply objective reality.

theofficefan99 posted...
Yes, but that doesn't matter. I told you how Resonance of Fate and The Last Story incorporate pre-rendered CGI/FMV into the game while having main characters show up with their equipped costumes/weapons in cutscenes and in gameplay.

Well that's great and all but you telling me about them doesn't magically put the knowledge of how they use CGI into my head.

theofficefan99 posted...
*sigh* you missed the point entirely.

No I didn't. I simply don't care for your extremely narrow viewpoint. Here I am saying that a difference between in-game and CGI breaks the immersion, while you're trying to say that a transition that does almost everything wrong is somehow a counter-argument because it does one thing vaguely right. If it's not a seamless transition it's not a seamless transition. That's how simple this is.

theofficefan99 posted...
I didn't mention anything about the gameplay changing.

So? You're trying to use it as an example of how a CGI to game engine transition doesn't break immersion - I'm telling you why, for me, it does. I don't see why you have some kind of problem with that.
#35theofficefan99(Topic Creator)Posted 3/4/2013 6:19:17 PM
Eoin posted...
theofficefan99 posted...
Matching models. As in, the difference isn't jarring. Here's what I mean:

"Matching models" means that the models match. You're attempting to illustrate that with models that do not match. The FFXIII in-game model looks vastly different to the CGI model. It is an immediat....act, th.....

theofficefan99 posted...
Yes, but that doesn't matter. I told you how Resonance of Fate and The Last Story incorporate pre-rendered CGI/FMV into the game while having main characters show up with their equipped costumes/weapons in cutscenes and in gameplay.

Well that's great and all but you telling me about them doesn't magically put the knowledge of how they use CGI into my head.

theofficefan99 posted...
*sigh* you missed the point entirely.

No I didn't. I simply don't care for your extremely narrow viewpoint. Here I am saying that a difference between in-game and CGI breaks the immersion, while you're trying to say that a transition that does almost everything wrong is somehow a counter-argument because it does one thing vaguely right. If it's not a seamless transition it's not a seamless transition. That's how simple this is.

theofficefan99 posted...
I didn't mention anything about the gameplay changing.

So? You're trying to use it as an example of how a CGI to game engine transition doesn't break immersion - I'm telling you why, for me, it does. I don't see why you have some kind of problem with that.


1. I'm talking art style-wise. I know you're focusing on the detail. I'm just saying that it's more consistent nowadays. It's not like in VII where it goes from chibi to realistically proportioned. That's what I was talking about.

And yes, I know many people don't like it, but many, many others do. Fans of Square Enix, Blizzard, and Mistwalker all love CGI, and that's millions upon millions of people. I know there are quite a few people out there that prefer a game to be all in-game. I personally don't understand it, but I can see why.

2. Well I already told you 0_o

Both of them have costume changes that show up during gameplay and in cutscenes, and yet they still have CGI. In order to not have silly costume changes throughout the game, they show the main characters in CGI before they have the option to switch costumes, and then for the rest of the game, whenever CGI shows up, it either shows no characters, or it shows NPC's. There are also a few CGI cutscenes in The Last Story that are flashbacks that show the main characters, but that works because, well, it's a flashback. Therefore, you won't see costumes changing randomly in the games.

It's a good method and it works, IMO.

3. No. The thing is, I'm trying to point one specific thing out, and you're focusing on everything else. I was strictly focusing on the switch from CGI to in-game to show how seamless switching can be great. I never pointed out anything else. I know the underwhelming, incredibly slow-paced gameplay compared to the awesome, fast-paced CGI breaks the immersion, but that's not what I was talking about in my post.

4. I know why you'd see the rest of it as an immersion break, but I was strictly talking about the switch from CGI to in-game. I don't care if other things break the immersion to you. I was talking about that specific switch from CGI to in-game. Not how it switches to a turn-based battle after a fast-paced, action-packed cutscene.
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"Dyin' is easy. It's the livin' that's hard..." Grim Reaper, Maximo vs. The Army of Zin