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Why do people like FFX, and yet hate FFXIII?

#41Ryphis_DemeanorPosted 3/23/2013 10:21:36 PM
I love both. And in very similar ways. Running through hallways to grind fights to reach better fights in a mini game.
#42SlaynWilderGL3Posted 3/23/2013 10:33:34 PM
Both are two of my least favorite FF games.
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#43tiornysPosted 3/23/2013 10:37:22 PM
The_Bones posted...
The battle system is one of the many things I didn't like about FF13. I hated having to stagger every enemy in order to do decent damage to them as it got tedious after a while.

This is a common complaint. It also happens to be false. Staggering tough enemies was important, yes, but most wandering encounters are more efficiently handled with some combination of buffs and/or debuffs instead of with stagger tactics. I discuss this in detail below.

As far as FFX vs. FFXIII combat overall, I think a lot of FF fans coming into FFXIII, especially long term fans, had a tendency to lock in various choices without thinking about the fact that this locks out a lot of strategic options (because earlier FF games had trained them to do this). Then, when they saw a lack of strategic options, they wound up complaining about the system instead of recognizing that their locked-in choices were the primary culprit.

A lengthy discourse on that theme: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/681990-lightning-returns-final-fantasy-xiii/65038417

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FFXIII offers 4 distinct damage multipliers that are under player control: COM role, chain gauge, offensive buffs, and offensive debuffs.

The COM role offers a static multiplier that grows as you gain role levels and add more COMs, with some additional situational multipliers. It's easy to activate--shift to a paradigm with COMs. The disadvantage of using this multiplier is that your COMs aren't doing other things; obviously, the best way to use COMs is to bring them in when your characters don't need to be doing other things.

The Chain Gauge offers a variable multiplier that ranges from nonexistent to x9.99. Maintaining it pre-stagger requires frequent attacks, else the gauge will reset. Staggering an enemy offers numerous bonuses, but causes the chain gauge to reset itself after 45 seconds or less. This multiplier is potentially the largest in the game, but it also takes the most time to set up, and has the shortest period of maximum potential.

The offensive buffs Bravery and Faith each offer a x1.4 multiplier to their respective damage types. This is the weakest available multiplier aside from situational abilities like Adrenaline. These buffs are very easy to acquire, and are long lasting. En-spells offer a x2 multiplier to non-elemental attacks against enemies with elemental weaknesses. When applicable, these serve to greatly enhance COM damage.

The offensive debuffs Deprotect and Deshell each offer a x1.89 multiplier to their respective damage types, which is stronger than most buffs but weaker than the chain gauge. They are generally easier to use than the chain gauge, but not as easy to use as buffs, and they last longer than a stagger, but don't typically last as long as buffs. Imperil does not directly offer extra damage, but against enemies with neutral elemental affinities, Imperil can combine with an En-spell to double COM damage.

Each of these multipliers compounds with the other multipliers. The more of them you employ, the more powerful the cumulative effect.

The existence of these different ways to multiply your damage gives you options. They allow you to evaluate your strength, the enemy's resilience, and make cost/benefit decisions on the amount of time needed to activate a multiplier vs. the amount that multiplier contributes to winning. If you are stronger than an enemy, especially if that enemy is weak against an element, it's often sufficient to toss on a couple of key buffs and destroy them with Commandos without even bothering to chain. If you are much weaker, you can combine all of the above to multiply your damage by more than 10,000%. And for parties of moderate strength, the cost/benefit decisions become quite interesting: is it worth the time it takes to inflict Deprotect? Is it worth staggering at 400%, or is 200% chain more than enough? Etc.
#44TwistedMaestroPosted 3/23/2013 10:41:39 PM
The music in FFX is much better and more memorable, and the sidequests are more rewarding. Uematsu needs to return and do the full soundtrack of the next FF game.
#45all_that_juicePosted 3/23/2013 10:48:15 PM
townz
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#46Vegeta1000Posted 3/23/2013 10:53:17 PM
Almost all JRPGs are linear, let alone the Final Fantasy game. What seperates FFX from FFXIII is that X actually had backtracking, towns (with shops), mini-games and side quests. Not to mention X had a great, emotional story and likable characters for the most part. XIII is basically cutscene, fight, cutscene, fight, cutscene, fight with very little breaks in between. It shouldn't take 25 game hours for the story to actually start making sense(and even then it's still confusing). You can't even start doing side-quests until after Chapter 10 (all they all revolve around the same crap). That and the laughable, confusion story, unlikable characters, game over if party leader is ko'ed, forced party until Chapter 10, crappy summons, level cap, gil being worthless, enemies constantly being recycled, having to constantly stagger enemies, and inability to control party members it's no wonder why XIII is considered to be one of (if not the worst) game of the series.
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#47tiornysPosted 3/23/2013 11:12:39 PM
Vegeta1000 posted...
Almost all JRPGs are linear, let alone the Final Fantasy game. What seperates FFX from FFXIII is that X actually had backtracking, towns (with shops), mini-games and side quests. Not to mention X had a great, emotional story and likable characters for the most part. XIII is basically cutscene, fight, cutscene, fight, cutscene, fight with very little breaks in between.

With you up to here. FFX certainly offers more exploration elements than FFXIII.

It shouldn't take 25 game hours for the story to actually start making sense(and even then it's still confusing).

I personally had no issues following the story. The world-specific terminology is defined during dialogue early on, and the plot isn't hard to grasp at all.

You can't even start doing side-quests until after Chapter 10 (all they all revolve around the same crap). That and the laughable, confusion story, unlikable characters, game over if party leader is ko'ed, forced party until Chapter 10, crappy summons, level cap, gil being worthless, enemies constantly being recycled, having to constantly stagger enemies, and inability to control party members it's no wonder why XIII is considered to be one of (if not the worst) game of the series.

Can't argue about the weakness of FFXIII's sidequests, although at least the ones that do exist showcase the excellent battle system.

Many people like the FFXIII characters, so they're hardly unlikable.

Leader KO? Yeah, leader switching or somesuch would have been nice.

Forced party opens up near the end of chapter 9, but yeah, that's a lot later than I'd have preferred.

Summons aren't crappy; they're misunderstood. Used correctly, they're very good at what summons have traditionally been good at: crowd control.

The level cap didn't bother me. I kind of like that it restricts the effectiveness of grinding, since strategy >> grinding in FFXIII.

Gil is not worthless; it's a scarce resource with powerful potential impact, since you can use it to fuel the equipment upgrade system.

See above re: constantly "having" to stagger enemies. You were doing it wrong.

You did have control over your party members. It's called your Paradigm Deck. Yes, that's strategic control instead of tactical control, but it is control nevertheless.

Those who consider FFXIII to be "one of the worst in the series" are generally working from a base of valid complaints slathered liberally with misinformation and misconceptions.
#48The_BonesPosted 3/23/2013 11:13:19 PM
tiornys posted...
The_Bones posted...
The battle system is one of the many things I didn't like about FF13. I hated having to stagger every enemy in order to do decent damage to them as it got tedious after a while.

This is a common complaint. It also happens to be false. Staggering tough enemies was important, yes, but most wandering encounters are more efficiently handled with some combination of buffs and/or debuffs instead of with stagger tactics. I discuss this in detail below.

As far as FFX vs. FFXIII combat overall, I think a lot of FF fans coming into FFXIII, especially long term fans, had a tendency to lock in various choices without thinking about the fact that this locks out a lot of strategic options (because earlier FF games had trained them to do this). Then, when they saw a lack of strategic options, they wound up complaining about the system instead of recognizing that their locked-in choices were the primary culprit.

The existence of these different ways to multiply your damage gives you options. They allow you to evaluate your strength, the enemy's resilience, and make cost/benefit decisions on the amount of time needed to activate a multiplier vs. the amount that multiplier contributes to winning. If you are stronger than an enemy, especially if that enemy is weak against an element, it's often sufficient to toss on a couple of key buffs and destroy them with Commandos without even bothering to chain. If you are much weaker, you can combine all of the above to multiply your damage by more than 10,000%. And for parties of moderate strength, the cost/benefit decisions become quite interesting: is it worth the time it takes to inflict Deprotect? Is it worth staggering at 400%, or is 200% chain more than enough? Etc.


Well like you said staggering tough enemies is important and that pretty much includes all the bosses and then some. Even if you remove staggering from the equation I still didn't like the battle system otherwise.
#49darkness1018Posted 3/23/2013 11:15:05 PM
Because FF X had great characters, story, battle system, towns and settings while FF XIII had none of those. Thats why. It was literally the last great FF game for me. Hope the series gets ALOT better soon.
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#50star_guy_100Posted 3/23/2013 11:15:26 PM
x had likable characters and an good/interesting story.