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My thoughts on the Lightning Saga.

#1ExtremeLightPosted 4/4/2013 2:50:44 PM
In retrospect, I only played FF13 twice and is on my second playthrough of FF13-2.

1.) Lightning is a so-so character in 13. She drove the party up till the moment where they meet Fang. Upon that point she was no longer the true main character and it became the story of Fang and Vanille. She became useless as a main character but serves her battle purposes. The Lightning in 13-2 is an improvement. When people say she lack development they fails to really look into her in 13 and/or did not play 13-2. She was more powerful (imo she hold the title of strongest FF protagonist as L'cie and magic of human in 13 universe [the whole universe] seem to be demi-gods). However, Lightning was a mere supporting, background character. Anyone who says she is being milked have the gift of overstatement. She was nearly useless as a character in 13 and was merely a background character in 13-2. LR look to fix that problem of Lightning not truly being the main protagonist of her own Saga.

2.) The battle complaints. "Oh yea, the game suxs because you can auto-battle. All you have to do is set your paradigms accordingly and let her rips." This is partially true. Partially because:
-You don't have to auto-battle.
-The battles are designed so you can make the most effective and quickest moves. IT IS impossible to set the same paradigms for the majority of your battles and expect to win (in 13-2 this is likely mid-game though but still improbable to win ALL your fights with the same paradigms).
The battle system as I learn is more challenging than "holding X" in older entries and making one hit simple moves in FFX. At least 12 add some challenges. The only legit battle complaint that should even be allowed is that 13-2 was easy. But at least it wasn't grind-worthy like 12.

3.) The crystarium. Anyone who say this is a good system... Just lol. It's basically a regular basic level-up system but with "crystals". Think about it, you could had easily level up and unlocks those roles without doing anything. Personally, I felt it was design to make the game seems longer and is a carbon copy of the much better sphere grid. Still the License Plate holds my winning vote by offering freedom to do whatever you want with your characters.

4.) "The story is dumb and complicated!!" After my second playthrough of 13-2, the story of 13 and 13-2 make sense without reading anything. Mainly in 13 the exposition is revealed throughout the game so you know what's going on before the big one (Crew vs. Pope). After that the story is so simple: Fal'Cie want to destroy the world, L'cie are the ones to stop them. 13-2 follow a simple plotline but it is not overcomplicated or "nonsensical" as people make it out to be. Mostly everything is explained in narration and dialogue... maybe if you spent let time cringing you'd understand.

5.) Hope is not "whiny". Look it up please. Dictionary.com:
whin·y [hwahy-nee, wahy-] Show IPA
adjective, whin·i·er, whin·i·est.
complaining; fretful; cranky: The baby is whiny because he missed his nap.


By this definition, Lightning, Snow, 13-2 Serah, and Vanille are all whinier than 13 Hope. He doesn't truly complain about the death of his mother except at that moment. After that he basically shut out his emotions so he can kill Snow which he almost done thanks to the true enemies. Even then the 13-2 Hope is far more likable and is the polar opposite of what you people tend to falsely describe his younger version as "whiny". Side note: Yes Tidus is whiny, but the story of X would lack depth if he wasn't.
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Lightning Returns will surpass 13-2 and become accepted by haters!
Official Noctis Lucis Caelum of the XV board.
#2ExtremeLight(Topic Creator)Posted 4/4/2013 2:51:34 PM
6.) The hero. Yea, yea, yea. One-liners. Knucklehead. Stupid. Rebellious. Ambitious. Leader. Savior. See what I did there. I think you people are taking lame cheap-shots at Snow because he is "dumb". Like seriously? I think that was the whole point. Have a guy who have the determination to save the world and his girlfriend. That what made him stand out from the other in 13. He was the one who truly wanted to save the world at first. And he is hated by you for it. Pathetic.

7.) Graphics was not the only redeeming quality. I think people tend to ignore the gameplay and exploration of 13 and 13-2. I mean compared to X and X-2 it is a tremendous improvement (13-2 being out of the water) in FF. I think that is what the newer FF is missing more gameplay elements. I'm glad Versus and LR will jump on that. Hopefully the PS4 FF follow suit.

8.) People should give 13-2 a chance. A real chance, not no "But I hate 13, this game will suck!" mentality. Seriously, I think all those people who hated 13 is missing out on a great game.

9.) Toriyama sucks. Sure, I agree. But he did directed the second most popular FF which is 10. So he doesn't sucks but... then wait... PARADOX!!! But seriously, he wasn't the only one who was working on the games.

10.) The linearity of 13:
I think this is a BS reason to bash the game, especially among older players who games at their time were quite linear or didn't even have the exploration style of 13. I believe the most Linear game would be Pac-Man. But you don't see people complaining about that too option. You are offered flexibility in Pac-Man though, but you are still playing a "Hallway" game. My point? People deemed FF13 as "Final Hallway 13". They accuse the game of being straight corridors for most of the game. Really? Like did you really play this game? If so then you also have the gift for overstatement. The Linear was made to fit the story IMO. You couldn't had just went anywhere (though I'll admit they could had done a little more with Sazh and Vanille city wherever they were). They were enemies of the state. Surely most areas would be occupied by troops. But map designs? X was more linear in map design. And I'm not just saying this because of Gran Pulse, I mean the whole two games compared side-by-side. FFX is the real "Final Hallway" not XIII.

11.) The "The game is a 20-hour tutorial" nonsense:
So you mean to tell me that you started a timer and let her rip for 20 hours straight and then when you realize that you can now freely level up without peaking by stupid level caps? Really? The game I think was designed so it won't be too easy and actucally make you USE YOUR BRAINS to beat the bosses and not overpowered them with level 99 characters within 10 hours of the game.

My final verdict: I think people who hate this game (and I mean hate not dislike) have crappy reasons for hating. Just because it doesn't meet your requirement doesn't mean you deserve to publicly bash it online in the fans face. Call up SE and tell them that you hate 13. Don't come to us with your 99 problems and then say graphic ain't one. Like I think you people hate for no reason. No real reason. You just pissed because SE didn't made the game you wanted. Newsflash: They don't care about you, they are a business. They want the money. They do put out nice games out there but if you're gonna hate it then what the point. 13 is the way it is because you hated 12, so they went back to basic FFX designs. 13 wasn't really a change forwards, it was a change backward. That was a warning. Don't expect any game to go back to FF7, nor don't expect a remake of 7 to be pleasing. You are just gonna hate it in the end.
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Lightning Returns will surpass 13-2 and become accepted by haters!
Official Noctis Lucis Caelum of the XV board.
#3CokaineCowboy77Posted 4/4/2013 3:01:48 PM
ExtremeLight posted...
.

2.) The battle complaints. "Oh yea, the game suxs because you can auto-battle. All you have to do is set your paradigms accordingly and let her rips." This is partially true. Partially because:
-You don't have to auto-battle.
-The battles are designed so you can make the most effective and quickest moves. IT IS impossible to set the same paradigms for the majority of your battles and expect to win (in 13-2 this is likely mid-game though but still improbable to win ALL your fights with the same paradigms).
The battle system as I learn is more challenging than "holding X" in older entries and making one hit simple moves in FFX. At least 12 add some challenges. The only legit battle complaint that should even be allowed is that 13-2 was easy. But at least it wasn't grind-worthy like 12.
.


I'll just take this point.

Okay, we've been over this: not using auto-battle does not fix peoples problem with the battle-system. In the right paradigm, you can pick ANYTHING from abilities and it has little impact on the battle. XIII's battles are all about being efficient, which is why people don't like it.

And you must be pretty bad at the game; I had the same set of paradigms for the majority of fights, actually all fights minus some tweaking for boss fights. The enemies don't challenge you enough to make specific Paradigm sets.
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FFVII>FFVI>FFVIII>FFIX>FFXII>FFX
#4nihilist212Posted 4/4/2013 3:02:31 PM
I have yet to play 13-2. I can say that in 13, the battle system was pretty simple until later in the game. Then you really had to focus on shifting at the right times and actually making your own paradigms to get the most out of everyone's skills. I really enjoyed that part of it, I think it was a lot of fun and could be challenging at times. Overall I think the game was good, and definitely NOT deserving of all the hate it gets. But, such is life.
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#5ExtremeLight(Topic Creator)Posted 4/4/2013 3:19:49 PM
CokaineCowboy77 posted...
ExtremeLight posted...
.

2.) The battle complaints. "Oh yea, the game suxs because you can auto-battle. All you have to do is set your paradigms accordingly and let her rips." This is partially true. Partially because:
-You don't have to auto-battle.
-The battles are designed so you can make the most effective and quickest moves. IT IS impossible to set the same paradigms for the majority of your battles and expect to win (in 13-2 this is likely mid-game though but still improbable to win ALL your fights with the same paradigms).
The battle system as I learn is more challenging than "holding X" in older entries and making one hit simple moves in FFX. At least 12 add some challenges. The only legit battle complaint that should even be allowed is that 13-2 was easy. But at least it wasn't grind-worthy like 12.
.


I'll just take this point.

Okay, we've been over this: not using auto-battle does not fix peoples problem with the battle-system. In the right paradigm, you can pick ANYTHING from abilities and it has little impact on the battle. XIII's battles are all about being efficient, which is why people don't like it.

And you must be pretty bad at the game; I had the same set of paradigms for the majority of fights, actually all fights minus some tweaking for boss fights. The enemies don't challenge you enough to make specific Paradigm sets.


-It does for some people. And you can't just pick anything, you're suppose to finish the battle with the fastest time possible. Picking anything is basically FF1-14 picking anything. If people don't like it because they're suppose to be efficient then that is part of my point.

-So you used Delta Attack and Relentless Assault all through Gran Pulse? And I assume you fought most of the enemies right? Did you? And most battles I admit would be won by using only Delta Attack and Relentless Assault but that is not what you are suppose to do.
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Lightning Returns will surpass 13-2 and become accepted by haters!
Official Noctis Lucis Caelum of the XV board.
#6CokaineCowboy77Posted 4/4/2013 3:29:52 PM
ExtremeLight posted...
CokaineCowboy77 posted...
ExtremeLight posted...
.

2.) The battle complaints. "Oh yea, the game suxs because you can auto-battle. All you have to do is set your paradigms accordingly and let her rips." This is partially true. Partially because:
-You don't have to auto-battle.
-The battles are designed so you can make the most effective and quickest moves. IT IS impossible to set the same paradigms for the majority of your battles and expect to win (in 13-2 this is likely mid-game though but still improbable to win ALL your fights with the same paradigms).
The battle system as I learn is more challenging than "holding X" in older entries and making one hit simple moves in FFX. At least 12 add some challenges. The only legit battle complaint that should even be allowed is that 13-2 was easy. But at least it wasn't grind-worthy like 12.
.


I'll just take this point.

Okay, we've been over this: not using auto-battle does not fix peoples problem with the battle-system. In the right paradigm, you can pick ANYTHING from abilities and it has little impact on the battle. XIII's battles are all about being efficient, which is why people don't like it.

And you must be pretty bad at the game; I had the same set of paradigms for the majority of fights, actually all fights minus some tweaking for boss fights. The enemies don't challenge you enough to make specific Paradigm sets.


-It does for some people. And you can't just pick anything, you're suppose to finish the battle with the fastest time possible. Picking anything is basically FF1-14 picking anything. If people don't like it because they're suppose to be efficient then that is part of my point.

-So you used Delta Attack and Relentless Assault all through Gran Pulse? And I assume you fought most of the enemies right? Did you? And most battles I admit would be won by using only Delta Attack and Relentless Assault but that is not what you are suppose to do.


Exactly: that's why XIII's battle-system is bad, because "you're just supposed to beat it as fast as you can". That's no motivation. It doesn't punish you for making bad decisions it doesn't even reward you for making good ones, except a faster time.

I can't remember the names, but I think it was:

SYN-MED-SAB
COM-SEN-RAV
MED-SEN-MED
RAV-SEN-RAV
COM-COM-SEN
RAV-SAB-RAV (Smart Bomb) - I remeber that one, it was pretty helpful.

And I fought every enemy possible with minimal tweaking, yes.
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The Official Carbuncle of the FFXV Board.
FFVII>FFVI>FFVIII>FFIX>FFXII>FFX
#7Killah PriestPosted 4/4/2013 3:33:15 PM
I like lightning, she is awesome.
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#8ExtremeLight(Topic Creator)Posted 4/4/2013 3:40:32 PM
CokaineCowboy77 posted...
ExtremeLight posted...
CokaineCowboy77 posted...
ExtremeLight posted...
.

2.) The battle complaints. "Oh yea, the game suxs because you can auto-battle. All you have to do is set your paradigms accordingly and let her rips." This is partially true. Partially because:
-You don't have to auto-battle.
-The battles are designed so you can make the most effective and quickest moves. IT IS impossible to set the same paradigms for the majority of your battles and expect to win (in 13-2 this is likely mid-game though but still improbable to win ALL your fights with the same paradigms).
The battle system as I learn is more challenging than "holding X" in older entries and making one hit simple moves in FFX. At least 12 add some challenges. The only legit battle complaint that should even be allowed is that 13-2 was easy. But at least it wasn't grind-worthy like 12.
.


I'll just take this point.

Okay, we've been over this: not using auto-battle does not fix peoples problem with the battle-system. In the right paradigm, you can pick ANYTHING from abilities and it has little impact on the battle. XIII's battles are all about being efficient, which is why people don't like it.

And you must be pretty bad at the game; I had the same set of paradigms for the majority of fights, actually all fights minus some tweaking for boss fights. The enemies don't challenge you enough to make specific Paradigm sets.


-It does for some people. And you can't just pick anything, you're suppose to finish the battle with the fastest time possible. Picking anything is basically FF1-14 picking anything. If people don't like it because they're suppose to be efficient then that is part of my point.

-So you used Delta Attack and Relentless Assault all through Gran Pulse? And I assume you fought most of the enemies right? Did you? And most battles I admit would be won by using only Delta Attack and Relentless Assault but that is not what you are suppose to do.


Exactly: that's why XIII's battle-system is bad, because "you're just supposed to beat it as fast as you can". That's no motivation. It doesn't punish you for making bad decisions it doesn't even reward you for making good ones, except a faster time.

I can't remember the names, but I think it was:

SYN-MED-SAB
COM-SEN-RAV
MED-SEN-MED
RAV-SEN-RAV
COM-COM-SEN
RAV-SAB-RAV (Smart Bomb) - I remeber that one, it was pretty helpful.

And I fought every enemy possible with minimal tweaking, yes.


Just as I thought. You didn't once use relentless Assault Rav-Rav-Com or Cerberus Com-Com-Com?
I always something adjust knowing the enemies I'm going to face.
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Lightning Returns will surpass 13-2 and become accepted by haters!
Official Noctis Lucis Caelum of the XV board.
#9ExtremeLight(Topic Creator)Posted 4/5/2013 10:23:41 AM
bump
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Lightning Returns will surpass 13-2 and become accepted by haters!
Official Noctis Lucis Caelum of the XV board.
#10plasticman13Posted 4/5/2013 10:29:09 AM
Actually, I breezed through the entire game using Relentless Assault and the Com-Com-Com paradigm while getting full stars in all of my battles. The only times I changed my paradigms in both games was during boss battles or when I was 'toise farming. Oh, and I have a platinum in both games too.
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