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Something more annoying than dodging 200 lightning bolts in FFX...

#41Spiroth_KweehhPosted 4/21/2013 6:08:34 PM
kaiser ryu posted...
Spiroth_Kweehh posted...
majin nemesis posted...
AnonUnknown posted...
Rope jumping minigame from FF9, anyone?


This


FINAL FANTASY IX has the absolute worst minigames of all time in a RPG, outside Chocobo Hot n' Cold, and that's only because it has Chocobos and Vamo' Alla Flamenco.

Rope Skip is the worst.


Hmm, I like FFIX's minigames. Rope Skip and Hippaul Racing may be difficult but they aren't required by any means. Tetra Master is again not required for anything and is widely enjoyed. The only one that is required for aiding in the overall game or for completion is Hot and Cold and I really like that game.

All of FFX's minigames are abysmal outside of Blitzball. Their premises suck and the controls for all of them are suckier. FFX's saving grace is again Blitzbal which I do find to be enjoyable. I'd still put X as having overall worse minigames exacerbated by them all being tied to Celestial Weapon acquisition.



Well,

-Rope skipping is absolutely awful. It could have some merit if it didn't become useless after 200 Jumps.
-Hippaul's Racing is pain inducing, and doesn't even reward you for raising him to Max Lv.
-Tetra Master is actually required for Story progression, its Tutorial is the worst ever, and even if it manages to become fun, it is ultimately ruined by the unbelievable Perfect Tetra Master Rank glitch.
-And let's not forget the awful Sword Fight, Quina's Frog Catch, and Oglop Key Thief.

At least Chocobo Hot n' Cold was funny, featured Chocobos and Moogles, was useful no matter how much you played it, and had the awesome "Vamo' Alla Flamenco" track playing in background.
It was awesome.
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#42kaiser ryuPosted 4/21/2013 6:45:45 PM
Spiroth_Kweehh posted...
-Rope skipping is absolutely awful. It could have some merit if it didn't become useless after 200 Jumps.


It is a challenge for those who accept it with diminishing returns. You are the obstacle in that game. It is as challenging as you are willing to let it be. There is no reason to go past 200 unless you just want to for the sake of satisfaction. Up to 200 is far from unreasonable and is a decent test of skill with little time dedication needed. The reward/effort curve is my ideal.

-Hippaul's Racing is pain inducing, and doesn't even reward you for raising him to Max Lv.


Then don't get him to max level. All of IX's minigames are not a chore to get what you need from them but offer further challenge should you wantit. That is good game design.

-Tetra Master is actually required for Story progression, its Tutorial is the worst ever, and even if it manages to become fun, it is ultimately ruined by the unbelievable Perfect Tetra Master Rank glitch.


You are required to witness it, sure, you have to go into the Tetra Master screen to progress, but there is no in-game reward for doing anything other than participating. And the game is good anyway, I can't say an obscure glitch ruins the fun I have playing the game. I know I earned max rank, I don't need the game to tell me. That glitch does nothing to the actual minigame.

-And let's not forget the awful Sword Fight, Quina's Frog Catch, and Oglop Key Thief.


All one off and none control as bad as the chocobo race. I enjoy the sword fight. Frog catching is easy and is high reward for the effort put in, not to mention a great tool for early game. Oglop Key thief, yeah, I honestly can't say this even registers as an obstacle for me, it's beyond easy and breaks up the pace of an area of the game that's been sort of relentlessly chain dungeoning you for a while.

At least Chocobo Hot n' Cold was funny, featured Chocobos and Moogles, was useful no matter how much you played it, and had the awesome "Vamo' Alla Flamenco" track playing in background.
It was awesome.


It really was.
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#43kaiser ryuPosted 4/21/2013 6:57:20 PM
Alltra posted...
"Rope Skip and Hippaul Racing may be difficult but they aren't required by any means."

I despise this mentality so goddamn much. It doesn't matter if it's optional or not, and the difficulty doesn't matter either. If it's not fun, it shouldn't be there, end of discussion. It being optional is not justification for bad content.

I was contrasting them to required bad content in another game. In which case I fulyl stand by what I said. It is far more excusable to have optional and difficult content than having nonstandard gameplay forced into the game proper for metagame rewards. On a game design level this is the difference between Samus getting her ultimate beam weapon through exploration and in an unrelated end of the game having optional arcade minigames in various rooms that do nothing vs. Samus needing to complete a level of Ice Climbers to get the ice beam.

Also, this here is subjective bad. None of the games are outright broken, some people enjoy them. I called them difficult, not bad. I actually enjoy the rope skip to a point and the effort/reward curve of Hippaul racing is enough to put it right at enjoyable for me as well. And on top of all that, nothing in the game forces you to do either. It's optional fun for those who find it fun.

"All of FFX's minigames are abysmal outside of Blitzball."

I still liked Chocobo Racing, and Blitzball was alright I just hated how time consuming it could be to earn prizes for it. The rest were mostly "Meh", as in I don't feel strongly about them one way or another, except for Doding Lighting which is something I can't say I enjoyed all that much.


I'd find chocobo racing fun if the random element was removed, the birds were properly indicated in their 3D space and the chocobo controlled consistently in relation to the camera at all times. FFIX's minigames suffer from none of those basic elemental problems. The 2D object in 3D space not feeling right leads to most people's problems with the butterfly game too.

These are broken game elements, not subjective "do you find this fun" questions. I find broken things to be fun too, but I don't let that enjoyment keep me from recognizing the faults in it. Nothing listed in FFIX is outright broken. Arguably less enjoyable, sure, but they are functionally adequate.
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The Tales of series needs more love in America.
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#44Spiroth_KweehhPosted 4/21/2013 7:01:30 PM(edited)
kaiser ryu posted...
Spiroth_Kweehh posted...
-Rope skipping is absolutely awful. It could have some merit if it didn't become useless after 200 Jumps.


It is a challenge for those who accept it with diminishing returns. You are the obstacle in that game. It is as challenging as you are willing to let it be. There is no reason to go past 200 unless you just want to for the sake of satisfaction. Up to 200 is far from unreasonable and is a decent test of skill with little time dedication needed. The reward/effort curve is my ideal.

-Hippaul's Racing is pain inducing, and doesn't even reward you for raising him to Max Lv.

Then don't get him to max level. All of IX's minigames are not a chore to get what you need from them but offer further challenge should you wantit. That is good game design.

-Tetra Master is actually required for Story progression, its Tutorial is the worst ever, and even if it manages to become fun, it is ultimately ruined by the unbelievable Perfect Tetra Master Rank glitch.


You are required to witness it, sure, you have to go into the Tetra Master screen to progress, but there is no in-game reward for doing anything other than participating. And the game is good anyway, I can't say an obscure glitch ruins the fun I have playing the game. I know I earned max rank, I don't need the game to tell me. That glitch does nothing to the actual minigame.

-And let's not forget the awful Sword Fight, Quina's Frog Catch, and Oglop Key Thief.


All one off and none control as bad as the chocobo race. I enjoy the sword fight. Frog catching is easy and is high reward for the effort put in, not to mention a great tool for early game. Oglop Key thief, yeah, I honestly can't say this even registers as an obstacle for me, it's beyond easy and breaks up the pace of an area of the game that's been sort of relentlessly chain dungeoning you for a while.

At least Chocobo Hot n' Cold was funny, featured Chocobos and Moogles, was useful no matter how much you played it, and had the awesome "Vamo' Alla Flamenco" track playing in background.
It was awesome.


It really was.


For what you said about Hippaul Racing, imo that's exactly what's not a good game design, but we all see it our personal way. :p

Hey don't get me wrong. I totally get what you're saying.
I myself got 10.000 jumps twice. And I'll do it again.
I love everything FINAL FANTASY more than anything and everyone.
But I will never stop criticising constructively.
These minigames were flawed.
Though, don't misunderstand me for one of those wannabe internet fans that bash FINAL FANTASY in a negative way, but are supposed to like it (as they claim).

I love FINAL FANTASY, and I'll continue helping make it better.




I have one question though.
Where was a Chocobo Race in FINAL FANTASY IX?
Or were you talking about a different instalment?


Also, what about Excalibur II?

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#45Spiroth_KweehhPosted 4/21/2013 7:00:27 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#46kaiser ryuPosted 4/21/2013 7:08:31 PM
kaiser ryu posted...
Alltra posted...
"Rope Skip and Hippaul Racing may be difficult but they aren't required by any means."

I despise this mentality so goddamn much. It doesn't matter if it's optional or not, and the difficulty doesn't matter either. If it's not fun, it shouldn't be there, end of discussion. It being optional is not justification for bad content.

I was contrasting them to required bad content in another game. In which case I fulyl stand by what I said. It is far more excusable to have optional and difficult content than having nonstandard gameplay forced into the game proper for metagame rewards. On a game design level this is the difference between Samus getting her ultimate beam weapon through exploration and in an unrelated end of the game having optional arcade minigames in various rooms that do nothing vs. Samus needing to complete a level of Ice Climbers to get the ice beam.

Also, this here is subjective bad. None of the games are outright broken, some people enjoy them. I called them difficult, not bad. I actually enjoy the rope skip to a point and the effort/reward curve of Hippaul racing is enough to put it right at enjoyable for me as well. And on top of all that, nothing in the game forces you to do either. It's optional fun for those who find it fun.

"All of FFX's minigames are abysmal outside of Blitzball."

I still liked Chocobo Racing, and Blitzball was alright I just hated how time consuming it could be to earn prizes for it. The rest were mostly "Meh", as in I don't feel strongly about them one way or another, except for Doding Lighting which is something I can't say I enjoyed all that much.


I'd find chocobo racing fun if the random element was removed, the birds were properly indicated in their 3D space and the chocobo controlled consistently in relation to the camera at all times. FFIX's minigames suffer from none of those basic elemental problems. The 2D object in 3D space not feeling right leads to most people's problems with the butterfly game too.

These are broken game elements, not subjective "do you find this fun" questions. I find broken things to be fun too, but I don't let that enjoyment keep me from recognizing the faults in it. Nothing listed in FFIX is outright broken. Arguably less enjoyable, sure, but they are functionally adequate.


"None control as bad as the chocobo race" was a carry over from earlier when there was more direct contrast between IX and X's minigames. This end of the conversation wound up far more diverged from that angle and I missed editing out that bit or making it more clear.
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The Tales of series needs more love in America.
Won't change sig until Namco gets wise. Started: 9/8/06
#47OtakuGameraPosted 4/21/2013 7:20:10 PM
dodging is easy, just read a manga while you dodge to pass the time
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#48Captain_UraharaPosted 4/21/2013 7:26:32 PM
The challenges in Batman Arkham City.

Not only was it bad enough to do all of the challenge rooms and challenge maps as Batman, but then you do them again as Catwoman, Robin, AND Nightwing. Most of the challenges remained the same and all the characters have largely the same moveset with some added/subtracted moves and slight variations.

I did them as Batman but then just gave up on doing them as the other 3. If I put my mind to it I can do them no problem but I just can't bring myself to do it. I have enough to games to play already so I don't want to waste time going through that BS.
#49JanayBerryPosted 4/21/2013 7:36:41 PM
king_madden posted...


why do you have to enter your password at checkout? what settings do you have?


Back when our IDs were allowed on five systems, I would sell or trade my PS3. Wasn't familiar with "deactivation" at the time, so I never used it.

I was playing one day and kept getting signed in on another system. I would later see new content in my download list. From that point on since 2009, I set the option to require password at checkout within the Account Management.

I eventually deactivated all PS3s, but never changed my settings back. It kinda grew on me.
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#50Aura_of_ApathyPosted 4/21/2013 9:50:43 PM
Collecting all the f***ing blast shards in Infamous 1. I drew out maps of the three islands, scaled the details, and coded in where all the approximate locations of the blast shards should be. Somehow never found that last one, gave up on that platinum. I searched EVERYWHERE.