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The creator of Dragon's Crown and Kotaku are Fighting.

#431FaustXIIPosted 4/25/2013 1:16:40 PM
"Maybe they like being desired?"

Well yes, obviously, every sexual human being does. Including you, being male. It's not gender exclusive babe, although I know you'd love to think it so.


Also your weak arguments and sudden insults and aggressiveness. That only shows me how weak and desperate you are getting, and how you really have nothing to back up what you say.
#432spectermaster14Posted 4/25/2013 1:18:56 PM(edited)
From: FaustXII | #426
You're twisting my words ^

I guess anything I say or do you will take and say "Oh but you're helping women so you're treating them like infants! SEXIST!!!"

And if I say oh boobs! How great! This woman is so sexy and hot, I want to play with her all day as I imagine ways I'll sex her up in my mind.

^ But that, that is NOT sexist, because women want to be sex dolls, right?

Which is the right answer for the children then? Any step I take and you will twist my words to make me look like the bad guy, because you're too afraid to see who the real bad guy here is?


The problem is that you still aren't grasping that women aren't one homogenized group. Wheep never said that all women want this or that, he said that some women may want to be seen as sexy or treated a certain way. That's her business, she has the right to feel desired or what have you. He's not saying it's right to lust over someone, he's saying that if someone wants to be lusted over, that's his or her own personal business and no one else's. It's not your place to step in and tell someone how they really feel or explain why they want what they want.
#433FaustXIIPosted 4/25/2013 1:20:17 PM
Godly_Goof posted...
Well I stopped reading there. So Yes you are an idiot. And majority? What majority? The one that we have seen no inclination of? The one that not one person can prove? The majority that we've seen via posts that just don't give a s*** about it? Is that the majority you're talking about? Or did you just make up an imaginary "majority" so you could attempt another ego trip?

You're seriously a joke. Why are you even still here?


One of my (female) friends posted this on FB a few days back. Just so you can see an example of my "imaginary majority":

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/19/business/media/dove-ad-on-womens-self-image-creates-an-online-sensation.html

Go ahead, read the last four paragraphs. There's a WOMAN telling you. Is it valid now? Or is it just me being another sad no-sexed "white knight"? lol
#434Ampharos64Posted 4/25/2013 1:23:20 PM
FaustXII posted...
Which is precisely why this is all so off-putting! I played it as well, well, didn't finish it. But as I said I liked how the women were portrayed. But this drawing is like a spit on the face for that. Sure the others are also exaggerrated (that Amazon is just crazy lol), way more than in Odin Sphere. And yes I see the context. But this Witch is overboard. Have you seen her two drawings? On one of them one of her boobs is about to flip out!

here: http://gaygamer.net/2013/04/dragons-crown-again/#more-4550

I can see why it might initially strike you that way, but I want to trust Vanillaware on this. Their games are made with real artistic integrity (have you seen this article?: http://art-eater.com/2013/03/from-mickey-mouse-to-jesus-the-latest-dragons-crown-trailer-is-full-of-epic-homages/), I can't see it being an attempt to resort to any kind of cheap 'sex sells' idea. The Amazon is not even conventionally attractive (not sure the Sorceress is either, she's so very exaggerated), and there's also the Elf girl - funnily enough the sites complaining about this don't seem to be bothering to include images of her (perhaps as a petite woman I should be somewhat insulted by that). When I look at the characters in the game, I think of the Josh Kirby art for Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels, Conan the Barbarian, and other fantasy references. I think it's playful, not degrading, and at the least I'll wait and judge it in the wider context.

As far as the possible implications of Kamitani's response, I'm not sure how to see that, other than that if the reference was to homosexuality, I didn't really see the drawing as insulting (it must have taken a lot of work, at least). But, I don't really feel able to assess that.
#435FaustXIIPosted 4/25/2013 1:23:44 PM
RyuuHou25 posted...
Hey genius, still waiting to hear where all these women that are offended by this are, all these ones that you claim have told you and are screaming and in anger over this game and the art style and the sorceress and her giant boobs and how it's objectifying them and sexist and all the other crap you've been spewing.


I've given you an example above ^

Hey genius, we're talking about how portrayals LIKE the sorceress are demeaning to women, not the sorceress herself.
#436RyuuHou25Posted 4/25/2013 1:26:59 PM
FaustXII posted...
Godly_Goof posted...
Well I stopped reading there. So Yes you are an idiot. And majority? What majority? The one that we have seen no inclination of? The one that not one person can prove? The majority that we've seen via posts that just don't give a s*** about it? Is that the majority you're talking about? Or did you just make up an imaginary "majority" so you could attempt another ego trip?

You're seriously a joke. Why are you even still here?


One of my (female) friends posted this on FB a few days back. Just so you can see an example of my "imaginary majority":

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/19/business/media/dove-ad-on-womens-self-image-creates-an-online-sensation.html

Go ahead, read the last four paragraphs. There's a WOMAN telling you. Is it valid now? Or is it just me being another sad no-sexed "white knight"? lol


One is not a majority. One is one person, kind of like how there's one or two females in this thread that said it ISN'T sexist you flipping.....

By your logic, our arguments are just as valid since there was a woman AGREEING that it isn't sexist. Yet somehow I bet you'll argue that, won't you??

This is why you're a white knight, because you're under the delusion that you're speaking on behalf of many, when they have their own voices and don't need YOU to say what they're feeling. Women, and men, are perfectly capable of doing that themselves.

Not to mention that isn't even ABOUT THE FREAKING SUBJECT YOU'RE HARPING ON AND ARGUING WITH PEOPLE ABOUT!! Oh, this games art is sexist and so are the character designs, here's some random article about a dove ad to support my crazy nonsense!
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PSN ID: RyuuHou24
"I never said that....and even if I said it, I never said it" - Dr Peter Venkman RGB
#437RyuuHou25Posted 4/25/2013 1:28:01 PM
FaustXII posted...
RyuuHou25 posted...
Hey genius, still waiting to hear where all these women that are offended by this are, all these ones that you claim have told you and are screaming and in anger over this game and the art style and the sorceress and her giant boobs and how it's objectifying them and sexist and all the other crap you've been spewing.


I've given you an example above ^

Hey genius, we're talking about how portrayals LIKE the sorceress are demeaning to women, not the sorceress herself.


Um, no, you've been talking about the sorceress and the whole thread and discussion has been on her and her design. You're just pulling in random crap to try and support your BS.
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PSN ID: RyuuHou24
"I never said that....and even if I said it, I never said it" - Dr Peter Venkman RGB
#438FaustXIIPosted 4/25/2013 1:32:48 PM
Ampharos64 posted...
FaustXII posted...
Which is precisely why this is all so off-putting! I played it as well, well, didn't finish it. But as I said I liked how the women were portrayed. But this drawing is like a spit on the face for that. Sure the others are also exaggerrated (that Amazon is just crazy lol), way more than in Odin Sphere. And yes I see the context. But this Witch is overboard. Have you seen her two drawings? On one of them one of her boobs is about to flip out!

here: http://gaygamer.net/2013/04/dragons-crown-again/#more-4550

I can see why it might initially strike you that way, but I want to trust Vanillaware on this. Their games are made with real artistic integrity (have you seen this article?: http://art-eater.com/2013/03/from-mickey-mouse-to-jesus-the-latest-dragons-crown-trailer-is-full-of-epic-homages/), I can't see it being an attempt to resort to any kind of cheap 'sex sells' idea. The Amazon is not even conventionally attractive (not sure the Sorceress is either, she's so very exaggerated), and there's also the Elf girl - funnily enough the sites complaining about this don't seem to be bothering to include images of her (perhaps as a petite woman I should be somewhat insulted by that). When I look at the characters in the game, I think of the Josh Kirby art for Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels, Conan the Barbarian, and other fantasy references. I think it's playful, not degrading, and at the least I'll wait and judge it in the wider context.

As far as the possible implications of Kamitani's response, I'm not sure how to see that, other than that if the reference was to homosexuality, I didn't really see the drawing as insulting (it must have taken a lot of work, at least). But, I don't really feel able to assess that.


You're right, when you put it your way I guess it's not so bad. It's all these people vehemently defending it that bothers me so much. And also, that homophobic insult, it is real, and it has made me lose respect for Kamitani and his games, unfortunately.

That page was pretty cool, some nice references and art. I hate this.. I mean I'm a fan of the art style and everything, and I can forgive the Sorceress bit, but that homophobic insult has given me some strong mixed feelings.

And yes it was homophobic, he basically reacted to what he said on the Sorceress with "maybe you don't like it because you like men instead lololol"

Yeah, bad taste.
#439wheepitupPosted 4/25/2013 1:43:03 PM
RyuuHou25 posted...
FaustXII posted...
Sagovic posted...
I think we should end this debate by saying, that this ilk of games are clearly aimed at naive teenagers.

Psychologically speaking, it's normal for a teenager to find this sexual innuendos "badass" or "super special awesome" and even fall in love with some of these over sexualized characters. But as they grow up, they'll change for better and realize that you shouldn't resort to over sexualized characters, boobs, innuendos to tell a story.

And yes Godly_Goof, I think was right with the social alienation stuff. Most of you guys are acting like marionettes or puppets, defending something that subconsciously you know isn't right.


Thank you. That's the problem. Deep down they know it isn't right, but since they can't accept it, and can't find a truly rational reason for it, they turn the tables, "destroy arguments" with nothing, etc.

Oh women as sex objects isn't good!? YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE SEX OBJECTS! LOGIC!! (And I want it too, but sshh don't tell anyone, I'm not the bad guy here)


Hey genius, still waiting to hear where all these women that are offended by this are, all these ones that you claim have told you and are screaming and in anger over this game and the art style and the sorceress and her giant boobs and how it's objectifying them and sexist and all the other crap you've been spewing.


At least this topic will stand as a testament to not take anything serious that GREEN00 and Faust post in the future as they are completely detached from reality and logic. SO I am happy with how this has played out in that respect.
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#440wheepitupPosted 4/25/2013 1:44:16 PM
FaustXII posted...
"Maybe they like being desired?"

Well yes, obviously, every sexual human being does. Including you, being male. It's not gender exclusive babe, although I know you'd love to think it so.


Also your weak arguments and sudden insults and aggressiveness. That only shows me how weak and desperate you are getting, and how you really have nothing to back up what you say.


I don't appreciate you calling me babe, you are making me feel like a sex object and that is greatly offensive.
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My Youtube Channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/decayedmatter
Me - http://i.imgur.com/Lzh6Ymp.jpg