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Is "the deteriation of Japanese games" a myth?

#31Godly_GoofPosted 4/25/2013 5:46:13 AM
morphinegirl posted...
In all truthfulness, shouldn't this be less of a 'japan deteriorating' conversation than it is a 'west's evolving' conversation?

If you think about it that Japanese games are getting worse, I think you play way mainstream, which is cool, they're not mainstream for no reason, but I think that's flawed thinking.

Maybe, just maybe, the quality of Japan's games aren't getting worse as a whole? Maybe big, established companies are more willing to release flawed games because they have the security of a fanbase, while small indie games still have to work for that fanbase and thus, are worked on 'til they're much better in overall quality?

And maybe, just maybe, America is releasing perceptually better games because they've been working towards dominating the market for years, and actually had to work for it at one point. Customers have started to have more awareness of good American games, because HEY! They're American! Japan's starting to face a decline here because of a combination of general complacency on their part, slight boredom on the part of the customer, and the fact that as we produce more games on this side of the world, they're localizing less and releasing more actual local games.

There are still good Japanese games, and in all fairness, there are crappy American games. Maybe in 10 years, only a handful of Japanese games will even bother localizing and we'll pretty much be stuck with western games. C'est la vie, man.


I stopped reading there. The west has become a stagnant cesspit of game design. Outside of Japan the bigger innovators for games are in Europe creating stuff like Gravity Rush. NA is just rehashing the same generic crap they've been doing for years :/
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#32SuigintouEVPosted 4/25/2013 5:48:46 AM
morphinegirl posted...
Maybe, just maybe, the quality of Japan's games aren't getting worse as a whole?


Oh, it definitely is. The technical capabilities just aren't there for Japanese developers (IE creator of Xenoblade basically said that game "could not" exist on a modern system because of its scope, and Square basically said the same about an FFVII remake).

... And they mess up with the few games that do have the budget (IE square still not releasing FF Versus XIII, and FFXIII being pretty mediocre).

So NA games start with a big edge - all the money to pour into graphics and physics, and then work from there. If it's a bad game, you still recoup the costs because the graphics will sell games.

You can't sell a game without graphics, but you can't have graphics without money from selling games, but you can't sell games to North Americans if they don't appeal to North Americans.

Given the above issue, Japan is at a big disadvantage.
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#33IamthekuzalolPosted 4/25/2013 5:59:42 AM
Japanese game deteriorating? Sure, their games tend not to sell as well as the western games, but that's mainly attributable to those mindless shooters, open-world rpg being in vogue. Western developers are just better at those genres, nothing more, nothing less.

Aside from those genres, Japanese is probably just as good if not better than them. Best fighting, action rpg, console style rpg and hack n slash games still come from Japan,
#34Godly_GoofPosted 4/25/2013 6:00:12 AM
SuigintouEV posted...
morphinegirl posted...
Maybe, just maybe, the quality of Japan's games aren't getting worse as a whole?


Oh, it definitely is. The technical capabilities just aren't there for Japanese developers (IE creator of Xenoblade basically said that game "could not" exist on a modern system because of its scope, and Square basically said the same about an FFVII remake).

... And they mess up with the few games that do have the budget (IE square still not releasing FF Versus XIII, and FFXIII being pretty mediocre).

So NA games start with a big edge - all the money to pour into graphics and physics, and then work from there. If it's a bad game, you still recoup the costs because the graphics will sell games.

You can't sell a game without graphics, but you can't have graphics without money from selling games, but you can't sell games to North Americans if they don't appeal to North Americans.

Given the above issue, Japan is at a big disadvantage.


All of those arguments make no sense since Japan has been doing the bigger graphic budget games this gen.

SE is holding back Versus until its done, unless you want a rushed mediocre game just give them time to finish it. Hell I've been waiting for Persona 5 for about 10 years now and you don't hear me crying every 5 minutes about it like the Versus people seem to :/. Additionally many MANY people feel 13 was a good game because the vocal minority decides to shout their distaste from the rooftops doesn't make them any more correct.

And what graphical and physics problems? TLS, XBC, and DS games all had meh graphics and simple albeit solid mechanics and all were we'll received in NA. Hell there we're petitions out the a** to bring XBC and TLS here because they felt there was "no market for it" and then they ended up selling really well.
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#35SinfullyvannilaPosted 4/25/2013 6:14:41 AM
GOTY, no matter how prestigious, only covers 1 game. It really can't be a litmus for a region's quality as a whole.
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#36Darth_ElusivePosted 4/25/2013 6:18:17 AM
Japanese games have deteriorated, but only in relative terms.

I grow up playing Japanese games. Back in the PS1 era, almost 100% of my games are Japanese. Now, "only" 70% of my collection is Japanese.

Back then, I remember Japanese games were so cool and Western games were mostly stupid. All these years, Western studios in general had learned and made significant progress while the Japanese stick to the same formula. Only until recent do the Japanese wake up to the reality and start to try out different things.

With Western games making significant progress and Japan games just inch forward, the latter had deteriorate in relative terms. I don't want westernization of Japanese games but would like to see them bring out new unique Japanese gaming experience.

As someone who love Japanese games, I am concerned about the talent of Japanese developers. Before Metal Gear Rising: Revengence was passed on to Platinum, Kojima let a younger team work on it but he was not satisfied with their work and eventually had to pull the plug and pass it to Platinum. Sqare Enix in-house development team seems to be even worse. Final Fantasy XIV had to be reworked and relaunched. And what's all these sequels and spinoffs of FFXIII which itself is a medicore RPG and poor FF game.
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#37daddydivinePosted 4/25/2013 6:19:26 AM
My opinion is that western games are better. My honest opinion. The asian market seems stagnant. As luck would have it the games I like usually sell very well so I wont have to worry about there being a shortage.

Sadly liking popular games makes me an outcast and so I'll have to live with being persecuted for enjoying them. The minority can be so mean at times. I used to say that I loved Skyrim... but a minority of gamers that didnt like it said I was a fool to love such a casual mainstream abomination. *tear*. I also used to love Call of Duty, WOW, and the Madden franchise. But it is impossible to love those games out for fear of persecution.

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#38lindaluvPosted 4/25/2013 6:35:15 AM
HolyMcmoly posted...
Purification posted...
HolyMcmoly posted...
No, no it isn't. When's the last time a Japanese game won the majority of GotY awards? The last BIG critical success I can think of was Shadow of the Colossus. Maybe MGS4. The fact is, a great game from a dev outside of Japan is much more common nowadays, and it wasn't like that in the early 90's. That tells me there's some deterioration going on.


You make it sound like winning the GotY award is a good thing...ridiculous. Those awards are handed to failed games in an attempt to give them publicity so they can gather fame. Winning GotY is a last ditch attempt for the game to salvage itself and earn some sales. Publishers basically pay so their game can win the award as a publicity stunt.


You're right. Games like Uncharted 2, Portal 2, and The Walking Dead game, aren't deserving of a GotY award. Those are obvious examples of failed games.

That is one **** opinion you got there.


Opinion or not, it has some merit to it. Some of the games that got GotY were just dumbfounding, clearly a bid to boost the publicity and sales of said game. GotY itself is based on a few opinions from a select few who have s small selection of genres they enjoy, which helps them to "choose" the so called GotY.
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#39XechsPosted 4/25/2013 6:40:54 AM
I think it's deteriorated a bit in market share and even in quality of games. A lot of beloved franchises had some serious lows this gen or down right terrible. also some genres good games became handheld exclusive.

Capcom had DMC4 with mix reception, dmc even worst reception, streetxtekken fighter, Mega man canceled, RE6, monster hunter tri (although if you were a western only fan then this one of few good options but outta what jpn got it was probably one of the worst)

Konami dropping everything for metal gear no variety. Silent hill hd collection is spit in fans face, they couldn't even give us the old games in HD they had to somehow make them worst and change directors vision.

Square-enix FF14 (very disappointing if you considered XI was awesome MMO), FFXIII-2 and Parasite eve "toriyama'd" (I like 13 but damn the endings to these games are definitely the bad toriyama classic make no sense kind), not porting their more new ideas. Front mission killed off with terrible game (Would have faired better as SRPg on handhelds, what a waste).

Tri-Ace, SO4 practically killed my fanboy of star ocean, if it can do that the game was terrible.

nintendo - kirby, Skyward sword, Sticker star, Metroid Other M, mario kart 7, SSBB, mario tennis (yes they screwed up mario tennis)etc

Namco-bandai - terrible handle of gundam franchise, half finished/non polished tales games (vesperia, graces, Xilia, xillia 2). Crap SP Soul calibur 5 (were are the story/character endings to arcade, no tag modes,

Sega - Sonic 06, yakuza 4, sega rally etc

NIS/ideafactory (bad battle/synth systems) ar tonelico, Atelier Rorona (granted totori and mereru were a lot better), crossedge, disgaea 3 (just too boring, the character/humor too dry but 4 made up for it) etc

Atlus - practically only 1 console game the entire gen

From software - armored core V (1/3 the length regular campaign).

tecmo ninja gaiden 3, dead or alive 5

SNK KoF XII

Yes we got some terrible disappointments in the same gen like dragon age 2, MW3, mass effect 3 etc from western devs just that a lot of these japanese franchises have been going a really long time in comparison even harkening back to snes psone days. Especially a capcom fighter being in terrible shape as is and a metroid and zelda games trashed as much as they got and FF both XIII and XIV getting below 85's. Also I'm not saying every sequel is effected I thought MGS4 was amazing and luigi mansion 2, mario galaxy were great (I'm excluding western made Prime and DKCR which added to the franchises esteem) etc.

With all that disappointment I do think some of the new ips have shone better, like dragon's dogma, souls franchise, vanquish, bayonetta, blazblue (really surprised how big this franchise has come in fighting world scene), valkyria chronicles, lost odessey,
Ni no Kuni, sega racing 1&2, Xenoblade Chronicles...
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#40nonexistingheroPosted 4/25/2013 6:46:49 AM
Castiel39 posted...
AnthonM2 posted...
doofy102 posted...
DarkSymbiote posted...
Kojima Productions and Platinum are the only two Japanes companies worth noting these days. And even then they can't do much without their leaders.


I doubt Rockstar would be where it were without the Houser brothers. Naughty Dog would go through somewhat of an identity crisis if their head screenwriters suddenly left. This leadership thing isn't only tied to Japan.

And no, it's not just those 2 companies. I listed at least twice as many in my OP that are at least "noteworthy". But they're not just "noteworthy" - they're good. Damn good. There aren't many great Western devs either, sure, there might be "more" than there are good devs in Japan, but to say Japan's talent has faded when really they've just shifted around...


I used to not believe that the leader is important until I played the awful Ninja Gaiden 3, Team Ninja is nothing without Itagaki.

Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 and Dead or Alive 5 proves this wrong.


Sigma 2 is a decent amount worse than the 360 version. Can't speak for DoA5, but Dimensions was very lacking. I can't imagine them doing mich better with 5.
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