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Just picked up ff13/ff13-2....

#71tiornysPosted 5/2/2013 12:33:00 AM
IHeartMetroid posted...
I forced myself to sit through a hundred hours of FFXIII just to make sure I hadn't missed anything. I can say with all certainty that the plot is nonsensical and stupid, the gameplay is flawed beyond belief, and the potential for redeeming aspects found itself removed when the crushing linearity was applied.

I have over a thousand hours in the game. I've probably picked up more than you did. The plot is questionably presented but hardly nonsensical, at least not in an internal sense. Certain character actions are arguably stupid, but they are also fully in character. But I'm not going to argue those points in detail, because I don't really care about them.

The gameplay is decidedly lacking outside of combat. Luckily for me, combat is both the most important aspect of RPG replayability to me, and excellent in FFXIII. I don't call that "flawed beyond belief" but I can certainly understand it being disappointing to gamers who like to have lots of non-combat gameplay in their RPGs.

As for linearity, you appear to take it for granted that it is a bad thing. I disagree; linearity in computer RPGs has never bothered me. If I want an open world game, I don't look at computerized RPGs for that; I go and play a table-top RPG with a human gamemaster.

Can you tell me- who thought it was a good idea to auto-game-over if your lead person happened to fall? No other FF game ever did that.

Eh, I don't think it was necessarily a good idea, but it certainly helps the game have excellent combat balance, so I don't consider it a crushingly bad idea as many people apparently do.

As for "no other FF game ever did that," I have a hard time giving any credence to this line of argumentation against any FF game. The FF series has been all about evolution and change throughout its existence. I'd be far more surprised to find a new FF game with no new mechanics on offer--and far more disappointed in such a game as well.
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#72Spiroth_KweehhPosted 5/2/2013 12:36:03 AM
IHeartMetroid posted...
"They lack the perspective"


What perspective? Surely you can see how ruining the gameplay, creating a bat***-crazy storyline, making the player run down boring tunnels for forty hours and erasing the wonderful classic FF themes might upset longtime fans.



He didn't say anything about these things, so what you said is irrelevant to his post.

As for what you said:

Gameplay: They didn't ruin the gameplay. It is just not as refined because it was an original idea. You think Job system in FINAL FANTASY III is anything like the Job system in FINAL FANTASY V? It has some low points that are the franchise's low points, but likewise, the high points of FINAL FANTASY XIII are the high points of the franchise.

Story: This is purely opinion (wether you like it or not). But you can't think FINAL FANTASY XIII's story is that crazy if you have knowledge behind the franchise.

run down boring tunnels for forty hours: I personally run down tunnels for 100+ hours, but their quality is opinion, as evidenced by the boring part in your sentence.

erasing the wonderful classic FF Themes: The lowest point of FINAL FANTASY XIII by far. Unacceptable. I really believe it's a Toriyama thing. I just can't believe they decided to not include FINAL FANTASY Victory Fanfare, FINAL FANTASY Main Theme and FINAL FANTASY Prelude.
Sure, Nobuo Uematsu couldn't contribute at that period of time (busy forming his own music company and stuff), but still....
For this reason alone, FINAL FANTASY XIII is my absolute least favorite Main FINAL FANTASY instalment by far. Far far far. Then if you add the other flaws (that every FINAL FANTASY instalment has).....

But we have to be fair. Blind bashing won't cut it for me.
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#73kewldude475Posted 5/2/2013 12:41:47 AM
Just so you guys know before deciding to waste more time, arguing with IHeartMetroid is like trying to convince people in the 1300's that the Earth is round.
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#74Spiroth_KweehhPosted 5/2/2013 12:42:13 AM
IHeartMetroid posted...
" Surely you can understand how the gameplay, story, and/or characters might have redeeming aspects that you overlooked or undervalued"


I forced myself to sit through a hundred hours of FFXIII just to make sure I hadn't missed anything. I can say with all certainty that the plot is nonsensical and stupid, the gameplay is flawed beyond belief, and the potential for redeeming aspects found itself removed when the crushing linearity was applied.

Can you tell me- who thought it was a good idea to auto-game-over if your lead person happened to fall? No other FF game ever did that.



I covered the plot thing and the gameplay thing in my previous post.

About the "Game Over when Leader's KO" thing, totally agree, but this is the result of no Leader change in-battle, which was refined with FINAL FANTASY XIII-2 (an example of my previous post's "gameplay" section). You can't expect everything to be perfect on the first try.
Plus the team might had been affected by the warm response Persona got at the time, which had the same mechanic.
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#75Spiroth_KweehhPosted 5/2/2013 12:43:47 AM
kewldude475 posted...
Just so you guys know before deciding to waste more time, arguing with IHeartMetroid is like trying to convince people in the 1300's that the Earth is round.



Let's not be pre-judgemental.
I believe we can see things in a more positive way if we exchange crushing opinions.
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#76kewldude475Posted 5/2/2013 12:44:34 AM
Spiroth_Kweehh posted...
kewldude475 posted...
Just so you guys know before deciding to waste more time, arguing with IHeartMetroid is like trying to convince people in the 1300's that the Earth is round.



Let's not be pre-judgemental.
I believe we can see things in a more positive way if we exchange crushing opinions.


I'm not being pre-judgmental, I've argued with him in the past on the PSP board.
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#77Spiroth_KweehhPosted 5/2/2013 12:47:19 AM
tiornys posted...
IHeartMetroid posted...
I forced myself to sit through a hundred hours of FFXIII just to make sure I hadn't missed anything. I can say with all certainty that the plot is nonsensical and stupid, the gameplay is flawed beyond belief, and the potential for redeeming aspects found itself removed when the crushing linearity was applied.

I have over a thousand hours in the game. I've probably picked up more than you did. The plot is questionably presented but hardly nonsensical, at least not in an internal sense. Certain character actions are arguably stupid, but they are also fully in character. But I'm not going to argue those points in detail, because I don't really care about them.

The gameplay is decidedly lacking outside of combat. Luckily for me, combat is both the most important aspect of RPG replayability to me, and excellent in FFXIII. I don't call that "flawed beyond belief" but I can certainly understand it being disappointing to gamers who like to have lots of non-combat gameplay in their RPGs.

As for linearity, you appear to take it for granted that it is a bad thing. I disagree; linearity in computer RPGs has never bothered me. If I want an open world game, I don't look at computerized RPGs for that; I go and play a table-top RPG with a human gamemaster.

Can you tell me- who thought it was a good idea to auto-game-over if your lead person happened to fall? No other FF game ever did that.

Eh, I don't think it was necessarily a good idea, but it certainly helps the game have excellent combat balance, so I don't consider it a crushingly bad idea as many people apparently do.

As for "no other FF game ever did that," I have a hard time giving any credence to this line of argumentation against any FF game. The FF series has been all about evolution and change throughout its existence. I'd be far more surprised to find a new FF game with no new mechanics on offer--and far more disappointed in such a game as well.



Exactly! This is the biggest FINAL FANTASY staple of all.

Even Dimensions (a Crystal Mythos Tribute release) has new mechanics.
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#78IHeartMetroidPosted 5/2/2013 12:48:26 AM
Oh, my stalker kewldude475 is back again?

He's been following me through random topics and just posting insults. Most of the time I only notice when someone quotes him, since he's on ignore for me.
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#79AwesomeOSaucePosted 5/2/2013 12:49:00 AM
I'm sick and tired of all this FF13 hate!

It seems that every day "ff fans" take the time to bash it.

I'm an FF fan and I like FF13 and EVERY other main series non mmo FF game for that matter.

You guys need to get over your butthurt for expecting ff13 to be another fff7.
you haters are so predictable that you can only make the same kind of topics.

hate SE now I liked back when the were Square.
hate the new FF games the snes ones were best
hate the FF games now the best ones were on ps1.
hate the new FF and X was the last good one.
lol lightning sucks rabble rabble rabble.

hey lets go hate on FF13 as something new to do! >_>

Say what you want "classic ff fans" but FF13 sold a lot of copies and unlike what every likes to complain about on forums lots of people enjoyed xiii-2 and want to play lightning returns later this year too.

Go hate on another game.
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#80IHeartMetroidPosted 5/2/2013 12:53:12 AM
"I'm sick and tired of all this FF13 hate!"


It gets hate because it was a terrible game. FFXII was a superb game, with excellent gameplay, a fantastic story (that actually made sense), a vast, realistic open world, vibrant towns to explore and people to interact with, and epic battles. It set the bar high, so when Square spit out FFXIII, people naturally hated it, and still do.

And for the record, a game over if the MC falls isn't a "new mechanic", it's just a stupid idea, so the foolish people trying to defend it can just stop that. It's silly.
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