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Metaphorical game requiring thought =\= good game

#21mad_hax_manPosted 4/29/2013 9:02:04 PM
digitalwill2000 posted...
SoaringDive posted...
digitalwill2000 posted...
There will always be hopeless apologists but the ones defendig 'metaphorical' games from criticism under the guise that critics just 'didnt get it' without themselves giving any evidence to the 'deep thought' of the game(s) are beyond foolish. All these games claiming to like deep like Journey, Limbo or Braid clearly only do so without any real explanation to its narrative expecting people to fight over it and then the creators act as if they intended for "all those interpretations to be true". Leaving things up to the audience in a story is a lazy and cowardly way to explain a [plot] narrative.
Just because it exists doesnt mean its anything special. If they're gonna be deep then they better have some message or social commentary thats WORTH sharing.

e.g a joke:
"Why didnt the skeleton cross the road? Because it didnt have the guts"
You get the joke? Yes. Was it funny? No.

same thing.


So basically, something is good if it holds your hand through everything and doesn't leave anything up to interpretation? I completely agree, we need more games like Call of Duty in a sea of bad games like Journey and Sword and Sworcery.


Wow, nice strawman buddy. Can clearly tell you're a fanboi who has had their fragile ego bruised because I dare question the shallow depth of journey.

I like how all the people whining in this thread have missed the main point I made, it just goes to show theyre just cranky that no sane person likes their fav games.

"If a game wants to be deep, then have something WORTH saying" as opposed to just pointing out th obvious like some of the people whining in this thread like to have done for them in games.



But why does it have to say something?

Neither Limbo or the games from TGC are trying to have any form of message, nor are they really trying to tell a deep story. They are trying to "tell" an emotional story. Limbo is all about claustrophobia and loneliness. Flower is all about, as Chen puts it, a "spreading of positive emotions", and Journey is all about connections. None of them are trying to say anything.

And if people want to apply meanings and interpretations to it, why is this a bad way for an audience to interact with a game? How is it cowardly?
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#22MaliciousMongoPosted 4/29/2013 9:31:22 PM
I actually thought out of the three games listed, Limbo was the only one that had a profound effect in terms of it's "metaphorical storytelling." Braid put a semi-clever twist on the whole "saving the princess" storyline that's been re-used a half million times but I didn't think it was particularly deep or anything. Journey actually just kind of gave me a sense of wonder in its small triumphs but other than that, it didn't affect me too much.

But again, it all comes down to personal interpretation. How I personally interpreted Limbo is most likely completely different from how anyone else might have, but this is what I gathered from it.

SPOILERS FOR LIMBO

A brother and sister get into a car crash and each of them slip into a coma-like state that causes them to enter this realm of Limbo. The sister slips into/arrives first and the brother shortly after. As the boy progresses the increasingly hostile and industrial-like environments, I believed it to be symbolism for the stages of life and how we all kind of get processed "through the machine" from adolescence to adulthood where we join the workforce. The different arrows that altered the directions of gravity to show how life pulls in all sorts of different directions, for better or worse.

Finally, at the climax, the boy smashes through a glass wall (metaphor for breaking the 4th wall or possibly representing a car windshield), and as he climbs to his feet, a pulse like a hearbeat or an EKG machine can be heard that causes the background lighting to pulse in tandem. On the horizon, he finally discovers and rejoins his sister where they both leave their purgatorial hell and finally pass on to the afterlife together.

END SPOILERS

From my interpretation of the events of that game, I found it to be quite beautiful and poignant. But even without its "story," Limbo's still a damn amazing game to experience and it's kind of a throwback to old 2D side-scroller adventure titles like Out of This World and Abe's Oddysee. The former of which had a really non-discernible "story," or at least, nothing in it beyond the intro was actually explained.
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#23digitalwill2000(Topic Creator)Posted 4/29/2013 10:32:50 PM(edited)
@mad_hax_man

See, this just proves my point of this blatant fanboism. After claiming there IS such deep thought, and A debunked it, y'all are now saying "omg why does it need it anyway" erm, because YOU just claimed it did. So not only am I right, but it shows that all these people claiming that these games are deep are just jumping on a flavourless bandwagon and are now trying to not look stupid as they show they have no idea what theyre talking about.

Besides, are you even listening to yourself? "Why does it need thought" I mean are you for real man? Do you watch static on TV all the while saying "Why should we watch stuff on tv"? My word, you fanbois.

@MaliciousMongo
See this is what you dont understand. The creators NEVER INTENTED it to have multiple meanings and for you to say that having different meanings is a good thing is an absolute farce and a giant piss upon true writers in the industry. The ends never justify the means. Why not just cut a story like LOTR in half and just say "the rest is up to your imagination". Take a game you like, what if I were to demand that it was just the MC's dream the entire time, am I wrong? How can you prove I'm wrong? Thats the basis of your interpretation and the developers of games like Limbo are taking advantage of you in such a juvenile way. Personally, I'd expect you to have a little more self-respect and not fall for such tricks but it seems thats too much for ask.


It truely is impossible to argue with ignorance, and it seems like people are complacent with interacting with ni more than juvenile/puny stimuli. How tragic. Whats more tragic is how they will continue to strawman me into this interpretation.
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#24zyxomma100Posted 4/29/2013 10:35:49 PM
Journey was great, no matter what silly metaphorical nonsense you saw or failed to see in it.
#25digitalwill2000(Topic Creator)Posted 4/29/2013 10:37:33 PM
zyxomma100 posted...
Journey was great, no matter what silly metaphorical nonsense you saw or failed to see in it.




Thats your final defense guys?

Game. Set. Match.
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#26zyxomma100Posted 4/29/2013 10:45:22 PM
Thank you for conceding defeat.
#27ninjakrakenPosted 4/29/2013 10:58:46 PM
digitalwill2000 posted...

@MaliciousMongo
See this is what you dont understand. The creators NEVER INTENTED it to have multiple meanings and for you to say that having different meanings is a good thing is an absolute farce and a giant piss upon true writers in the industry. The ends never justify the means. Why not just cut a story like LOTR in half and just say "the rest is up to your imagination". Take a game you like, what if I were to demand that it was just the MC's dream the entire time, am I wrong? How can you prove I'm wrong? Thats the basis of your interpretation and the developers of games like Limbo are taking advantage of you in such a juvenile way. Personally, I'd expect you to have a little more self-respect and not fall for such tricks but it seems thats too much for ask.


How do you know that that's not what the writers intended? Many stories drop clues and basically allow the viewer to fill in the gaps and shape the story as they see fit. It is a different style of storytelling that I absolutely think is valid way to tell a story, just part of a spectrum of styles. Of course not all stories are good but they can be.
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#28Battleship_GrayPosted 4/30/2013 12:52:36 AM
There's really no point in arguing with someone who tries to use "fanboi" as an actual insult.
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#29Thermador446Posted 4/30/2013 12:54:16 AM
Doesn't Metaphorical mean it involves unicorns?
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#30kingofall214Posted 4/30/2013 1:03:49 AM
I agree TC. Open ended "what do you think it means" Stories are crap.

Now endings that are not clear at first but can be figured out by careful examination of the whole story, those are the best endings. The sopranos, Inception, etc etc. These are great examples. A good story should leave you thinking after it has been told.
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