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Why do people compare used games to piracy?.

#111koalabear9000Posted 5/1/2013 1:26:23 AM
Lord_Shadow_19 posted...
koalabear9000 posted...
king_madden posted...
marvelite50 posted...
People talk about developers that have gone under due to used sales, can anyone name a developer that made quality games that people wanted to buy and was put under by used sales? Good games make money. Good franchises make money. If you don't have either of those, you should think twice before dropping millions into a game that just isn't that good. Poor investments on the corporate side of the market are what is really hurting the industry. They expect COD level sales without thinking that COD didn't start out with the kind of sales it has now. It built up it's franchise name by making quality games that the customers wanted to buy.

It's important to note that COD started off this gen relatively unique (with MW). Many other games try and emulate COD and fail, because they are competing against something that is already the king of the genre. Why would you buy a COD clone when you could just buy COD? The way you build a franchise is by starting something relatively unique. Assassins creed is a good example.

The game industry seems to be incapable of accurately predicting the number of sales they can expect, which is 100% their fault if they're taking losses. The film industry is extremely good at predicting sales, and even when you do have a big budget movie that flops, more times that not it still makes it's money back. If the game industry is frequently taking losses on games, that's their own fault for not being smart with their money.



there are good games that sale, there are good games that dont sell. there are "bad games" that sell, and bad games that dont sell.

there are also A LOT of movies that make no where near their costs back, not sure where you're getting that. Companies want to put money behind things they think will work, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt, you never really know, its all a gamble. there is nothing out there that is 100% at predicting what will sell and what wouldnt.


But companies could put lot less money in games and that way minimize the potential risk and same time maximize the potential profit. I agree that there is no way to be certain if something sells or not but it is stupid to think that everything will sell like CoD and put ridiculous amounts of money towards a product that only a handful of people are going to buy.

When you look at it used game sale is hurting the industry but that's only because publishers expect sales that wouldn't even happen. If used games would be banned it wouldn't increase anymore sales because then those people who buy used would just wait the price to go down and that is equally bad for publisher.


So you want you companies to put LESS effort into making games, I may be old fashioned, but I want games to continue improving.


Less money =/= less effort. You can have a game that has lot effort put into it but the budget is realistic for example Souls games. Games can even continue to improve even if the budgets don't go up.
#112the_requiemPosted 5/1/2013 3:21:36 AM
chiefofsb78 posted...
Letiumtide posted...
It's not killing gaming.

Many other industries have used products, hell most people by used cars, you don't see like Ford trying to stop people from buying used cars. It's just a part of the industry. Gaming devs and companies are using this argument to sway users, but really they're just suffering the same economic woes as everybody else and decided that they wanted to go after used games as an excuse. The gaming market was fine back in the day, it's fine today, they're just using it as a strawman argument.


Its not killing gaming tell that to the devs that go out of business every year and you cant compare cars to $60 games cars are way over priced car companies are getting way more than enough money so they dont care about used care sales


I can also say "look at all the companies that are making more and more money from gaming". Businesses go kaput in every industry. Mediocre and poor quality get the axe. Good quality always survives.

Do you think Rockstar games are not pirated or bought used at all? But then, creating a better game is lot tougher than blaming someone else.

Stop drinking the publisher cool-aid.
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#113Lord_Shadow_19Posted 5/1/2013 5:10:26 AM
koalabear9000 posted...
Lord_Shadow_19 posted...
koalabear9000 posted...
king_madden posted...
marvelite50 posted...
People talk about developers that have gone under due to used sales, can anyone name a developer that made quality games that people wanted to buy and was put under by used sales? Good games make money. Good franchises make money. If you don't have either of those, you should think twice before dropping millions into a game that just isn't that good. Poor investments on the corporate side of the market are what is really hurting the industry. They expect COD level sales without thinking that COD didn't start out with the kind of sales it has now. It built up it's franchise name by making quality games that the customers wanted to buy.

It's important to note that COD started off this gen relatively unique (with MW). Many other games try and emulate COD and fail, because they are competing against something that is already the king of the genre. Why would you buy a COD clone when you could just buy COD? The way you build a franchise is by starting something relatively unique. Assassins creed is a good example.

The game industry seems to be incapable of accurately predicting the number of sales they can expect, which is 100% their fault if they're taking losses. The film industry is extremely good at predicting sales, and even when you do have a big budget movie that flops, more times that not it still makes it's money back. If the game industry is frequently taking losses on games, that's their own fault for not being smart with their money.



there are good games that sale, there are good games that dont sell. there are "bad games" that sell, and bad games that dont sell.

there are also A LOT of movies that make no where near their costs back, not sure where you're getting that. Companies want to put money behind things they think will work, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt, you never really know, its all a gamble. there is nothing out there that is 100% at predicting what will sell and what wouldnt.


But companies could put lot less money in games and that way minimize the potential risk and same time maximize the potential profit. I agree that there is no way to be certain if something sells or not but it is stupid to think that everything will sell like CoD and put ridiculous amounts of money towards a product that only a handful of people are going to buy.

When you look at it used game sale is hurting the industry but that's only because publishers expect sales that wouldn't even happen. If used games would be banned it wouldn't increase anymore sales because then those people who buy used would just wait the price to go down and that is equally bad for publisher.


So you want you companies to put LESS effort into making games, I may be old fashioned, but I want games to continue improving.


Less money =/= less effort. You can have a game that has lot effort put into it but the budget is realistic for example Souls games. Games can even continue to improve even if the budgets don't go up.


Good luck staying competitive if you make your games look like PS2 games when you're programming for a PS4. Many people will look at graphics as one of the first things to judge how good a game might be.
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#114koalabear9000Posted 5/1/2013 5:59:06 AM
Lord_Shadow_19 posted...
koalabear9000 posted...
Lord_Shadow_19 posted...


So you want you companies to put LESS effort into making games, I may be old fashioned, but I want games to continue improving.


Less money =/= less effort. You can have a game that has lot effort put into it but the budget is realistic for example Souls games. Games can even continue to improve even if the budgets don't go up.


Good luck staying competitive if you make your games look like PS2 games when you're programming for a PS4. Many people will look at graphics as one of the first things to judge how good a game might be.


You can make a profitable game with low budget that looks like PS3 game atm so why would you have to make PS4 game look like PS2 game if developing games to PS4 will be easier than to PS3?
#115king_maddenPosted 5/1/2013 9:47:35 AM
ok so to all people saying theres no way used games are hurting the industry, what is your proof, what is the one thing you would take to court and use to justify your stance. how do you know for a fact that devs/pubs arent affected in anyway by used sales

but remember, things like
-there have always been used games
-other industries do it
-this one dev one time said they didnt.

all wouldnt hold up in court, a long with other things that we all know are just opinion
#116hockeybub89Posted 5/1/2013 9:50:40 AM
Until we ban the sale of used everything, I don't want to hear crying about how used games are evil.
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#117CaptainLukaPosted 5/1/2013 10:17:40 AM
king_madden posted...
ok so to all people saying theres no way used games are hurting the industry, what is your proof, what is the one thing you would take to court and use to justify your stance. how do you know for a fact that devs/pubs arent affected in anyway by used sales

but remember, things like
-there have always been used games
-other industries do it
-this one dev one time said they didnt.

all wouldnt hold up in court, a long with other things that we all know are just opinion


To be fair, I think the burden of proof lies with both parties here - the people claiming that used sales hurts the industry and the ones who claim otherwise. The thing there, though, is that we who claim that used sales are not affecting the industry negatively constantly provide solid information. While those who say that used sales ARE hurting the industry never provide any concrete info. Other than publishers and their outcry that used sales hurt the industry. An outcry that somehow always seems to leave out any actual fact or info.

And I hate when people bring up court. "How will this stand in court?"
Uhhh...I don't know. Most courts are already broken and falsely accuse and punish tons of innocents. The court has jacked up priorities when people like Aaron Swartz can get decades in prison and rapists get off with less than ten.
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#118king_maddenPosted 5/1/2013 10:46:31 AM
CaptainLuka posted...
king_madden posted...
ok so to all people saying theres no way used games are hurting the industry, what is your proof, what is the one thing you would take to court and use to justify your stance. how do you know for a fact that devs/pubs arent affected in anyway by used sales

but remember, things like
-there have always been used games
-other industries do it
-this one dev one time said they didnt.

all wouldnt hold up in court, a long with other things that we all know are just opinion


To be fair, I think the burden of proof lies with both parties here - the people claiming that used sales hurts the industry and the ones who claim otherwise. The thing there, though, is that we who claim that used sales are not affecting the industry negatively constantly provide solid information. While those who say that used sales ARE hurting the industry never provide any concrete info. Other than publishers and their outcry that used sales hurt the industry. An outcry that somehow always seems to leave out any actual fact or info.

And I hate when people bring up court. "How will this stand in court?"
Uhhh...I don't know. Most courts are already broken and falsely accuse and punish tons of innocents. The court has jacked up priorities when people like Aaron Swartz can get decades in prison and rapists get off with less than ten.


this is the typical thought process.

"no we dont have ACTUAL proof, but we cant listen to the only people who WOULD know (devs/publishers), and even if the courts ruled in their favor the courts dont work either".

this is basically like covering your ears and saying "lalalalala".

thing is though the ones against rarely have "solid" information. none of you know the numbers, you ask questions that you know cant be answered because it isnt tracked.

Its just not often you see people who dont know the process, dont know the numbers, dont completely understand the entire process, but are quick to say something is a fact while compeltely dismissing and begging for proof from people who say its at least "possible".
#119kdiz4321Posted 5/1/2013 10:53:40 AM
king_madden posted...
CaptainLuka posted...
king_madden posted...
ok so to all people saying theres no way used games are hurting the industry, what is your proof, what is the one thing you would take to court and use to justify your stance. how do you know for a fact that devs/pubs arent affected in anyway by used sales

but remember, things like
-there have always been used games
-other industries do it
-this one dev one time said they didnt.

all wouldnt hold up in court, a long with other things that we all know are just opinion


To be fair, I think the burden of proof lies with both parties here - the people claiming that used sales hurts the industry and the ones who claim otherwise. The thing there, though, is that we who claim that used sales are not affecting the industry negatively constantly provide solid information. While those who say that used sales ARE hurting the industry never provide any concrete info. Other than publishers and their outcry that used sales hurt the industry. An outcry that somehow always seems to leave out any actual fact or info.

And I hate when people bring up court. "How will this stand in court?"
Uhhh...I don't know. Most courts are already broken and falsely accuse and punish tons of innocents. The court has jacked up priorities when people like Aaron Swartz can get decades in prison and rapists get off with less than ten.


this is the typical thought process.

"no we dont have ACTUAL proof, but we cant listen to the only people who WOULD know (devs/publishers), and even if the courts ruled in their favor the courts dont work either".

this is basically like covering your ears and saying "lalalalala".

thing is though the ones against rarely have "solid" information. none of you know the numbers, you ask questions that you know cant be answered because it isnt tracked.

Its just not often you see people who dont know the process, dont know the numbers, dont completely understand the entire process, but are quick to say something is a fact while compeltely dismissing and begging for proof from people who say its at least "possible".


It's not a matter of whether the devs/publishers do know, it's a matter that they have another agenda (extracting as much money as possible from the consumer). You can't take what they say at face value; you can't deny that they are losing some money on used games, but their statement that used games are causing the industry to fall apart is just as trustworthy as someone saying that it's not causing the industry to fall apart because they were around when the industry wasn't in such a bad spot.
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#120koalabear9000Posted 5/1/2013 11:05:24 AM
king_madden posted...
CaptainLuka posted...
king_madden posted...
ok so to all people saying theres no way used games are hurting the industry, what is your proof, what is the one thing you would take to court and use to justify your stance. how do you know for a fact that devs/pubs arent affected in anyway by used sales

but remember, things like
-there have always been used games
-other industries do it
-this one dev one time said they didnt.

all wouldnt hold up in court, a long with other things that we all know are just opinion


To be fair, I think the burden of proof lies with both parties here - the people claiming that used sales hurts the industry and the ones who claim otherwise. The thing there, though, is that we who claim that used sales are not affecting the industry negatively constantly provide solid information. While those who say that used sales ARE hurting the industry never provide any concrete info. Other than publishers and their outcry that used sales hurt the industry. An outcry that somehow always seems to leave out any actual fact or info.

And I hate when people bring up court. "How will this stand in court?"
Uhhh...I don't know. Most courts are already broken and falsely accuse and punish tons of innocents. The court has jacked up priorities when people like Aaron Swartz can get decades in prison and rapists get off with less than ten.


this is the typical thought process.

"no we dont have ACTUAL proof, but we cant listen to the only people who WOULD know (devs/publishers), and even if the courts ruled in their favor the courts dont work either".

this is basically like covering your ears and saying "lalalalala".

thing is though the ones against rarely have "solid" information. none of you know the numbers, you ask questions that you know cant be answered because it isnt tracked.

Its just not often you see people who dont know the process, dont know the numbers, dont completely understand the entire process, but are quick to say something is a fact while compeltely dismissing and begging for proof from people who say its at least "possible".


So your proof is that some devs and publishers say that it hurts industry even though you said we can't use devs/publishers statement that it isn't hurting the industry as a proof. You are awesome. And really who knows the numbers of used game sales. If I sell my copy of a game to a friend it isn't marked anywhere. So we can't ever have the exact numbers of used game sales.