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Why do people compare used games to piracy?.

#81nclrwntrPosted 4/29/2013 12:40:15 PM
It's not the same thing but the end result is the same. The pub/dev doesn't get the sale.
#82koalabear9000Posted 4/29/2013 12:49:47 PM(edited)
nclrwntr posted...
It's not the same thing but the end result is the same. The pub/dev doesn't get the sale.


Developers don't get any money from sales. And retailers don't have unlimited supply of used games so they have to buy new copies from retailers from time to time so publishers get more money. It's not like that one used copy would go around more than 5 people max or even less.

Pirated copies though are unlimited and doesn't require to be bought from publisher so every pirated copy is a lost sale.
#83theshovellerPosted 4/29/2013 12:49:45 PM
justchill433 posted...
From: Letiumtide | #002
Well, there is always one thing that tends to break that debate, and that's if you buy a used game (lets say it's actually a relatively recent release so it's still worth money) you can take that game and put it towards a new game if you really wanted to and many people do.

Used games can be part of the cycle, pirated games cannot. Debate over.

But if I pirate a game then I still have the money I would have spent to spend on a new game.


And if you pirated one game and had money for a new game, then why buy a new game instead of just pirating that game, too? Then you'd have money for a new game still, AND you'd have two more games! But why buy that third game, and not pirate it? Why not the fourth? Fifth? Sixth? Seventy-second? One-hundred and twenty-ninth?

The point is, buying a game - new or used - removes one from the "supply" side of things. Someone, at some point, is getting money for their goods. With a pirated copy, you are essentially "creating" a new unit of those goods, and paying nobody anything for that. The supply stays the same, yet the demand has diminished. Now, replace "game" with "something you yourself can do or provide." Why would someone want you to make a sign for them when they can just get one for free that's the exact same as the one you would have made? Why should someone hire you to do a job when they can get "you-but-not-you" to do the exact same job for free?

That's how piracy affects the formula. Imagine if your job didn't exist anymore because someone decided to clone you and had the clone work for free, doing the same amount of work you did, but without having to pay any money. Is that very fair to you? Imagine if every single job you went to apply for had this problem. You now have no means of providing for yourself. What can you do that "you" can't do?
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#84_Random___Name_Posted 4/29/2013 12:59:43 PM
TL;DR Seriously, it shouldn't be pages and pages to clear this up. Used games is compared to piracy because the owners of the intellectual property, the company who developed the game, aren't getting paid for their work.

I read a post that said other industries don't whine when their products get resold as used. This is an improper comparison. When you buy hardware, you are paying for their craftsmanship and the materials they used to create it. The manufacturer has been completely compensated for their work. Intellectual property like software on the other hand is completely different. They rely on the sum of all the users to cover the cost of development. You don't think it cost $60 to develop the content on that disc do you? Thats why its completely legitimate to license software. Every user needs to be paying the developer for their work.

I'm not without sympathy for the user. I hate the price fixing in the market. These companies will drain every dollar from you if they can. They take no concern over the value or quality of the product they provide. The value of generating repeat customers through fair treatment is of minor concern. If they sold single use license video game but sold games at a fair price of 20-30 dollars, I think they'd still turn great profits and I'd be extremely happy to pay that price. But we know what they'd do, they'd block secondary sales without any consideration of lowering the price.
#85BlinkWinkelPosted 4/29/2013 1:14:50 PM
I mainly buy JRPGs from NISA, and they always make some really nice limited editions so I don't have any reason to buy these games used.

However, for other games that don't have any pre-order bonus or LE editions at all, I always wait and buy these games used. Because that's like paying an extra ~20$ just for the factory sealed plastic wrap...

It's 100% legal, only greedy companies who care about nothing but their sale numbers and brainwashed/blind fanboys compare used games to "piracy".
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#86War_FailPosted 4/29/2013 1:18:32 PM
reincarnator07 posted...
Most other industries would stop used sales if they could. Gaming is one of the only ones where it is feasible.

Used games are compared with piracy because they have the same effect on publishers. 1,000,000 used games sales brings in exactly the same amount of money to the publishers as 1,000,000 pirated copies. The fact that they were once new copies is irrelevant.


Not buying games at all is comparable to piracy because it has the same effect on publishers.

295 million Americans not buying a certain game brings in exactly the same amount of money to the publisher as 295 million pirated copies. Therefore, every single person who does not play video games is depriving publishers of revenue, just the same as if they were pirating games instead.
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#87justchill433Posted 4/29/2013 1:28:51 PM(edited)
From: BlinkWinkel | #085
I mainly buy JRPGs from NISA, and they always make some really nice limited editions so I don't have any reason to buy these games used.

However, for other games that don't have any pre-order bonus or LE editions at all, I always wait and buy these games used. Because that's like paying an extra ~20$ just for the factory sealed plastic wrap...

It's 100% legal, only greedy companies who care about nothing but their sale numbers and brainwashed/blind fanboys compare used games to "piracy".

Well then you can understand why companies put anti-used used systems in place. Who cares if they piss you off since you don't give them money anyways.

From: theshoveller | #083
justchill433 posted...
From: Letiumtide | #002
Well, there is always one thing that tends to break that debate, and that's if you buy a used game (lets say it's actually a relatively recent release so it's still worth money) you can take that game and put it towards a new game if you really wanted to and many people do.

Used games can be part of the cycle, pirated games cannot. Debate over.

But if I pirate a game then I still have the money I would have spent to spend on a new game.


And if you pirated one game and had money for a new game, then why buy a new game instead of just pirating that game, too? Then you'd have money for a new game still, AND you'd have two more games! But why buy that third game, and not pirate it? Why not the fourth? Fifth? Sixth? Seventy-second? One-hundred and twenty-ninth?

The point is, buying a game - new or used - removes one from the "supply" side of things. Someone, at some point, is getting money for their goods. With a pirated copy, you are essentially "creating" a new unit of those goods, and paying nobody anything for that. The supply stays the same, yet the demand has diminished. Now, replace "game" with "something you yourself can do or provide." Why would someone want you to make a sign for them when they can just get one for free that's the exact same as the one you would have made? Why should someone hire you to do a job when they can get "you-but-not-you" to do the exact same job for free?

That's how piracy affects the formula. Imagine if your job didn't exist anymore because someone decided to clone you and had the clone work for free, doing the same amount of work you did, but without having to pay any money. Is that very fair to you? Imagine if every single job you went to apply for had this problem. You now have no means of providing for yourself. What can you do that "you" can't do?

Yes, some people pirate everything they can, but most people pirate things they want to play, but wouldn't waste their money on. For example, $15 for Age of Empires 2 HD is way too much especially for the broken state it's in. I would never buy this even if I do want it. By pirating it I would be saving $15 for something like Soul Sacrifice.
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#88theshovellerPosted 4/29/2013 1:36:09 PM
justchill433 posted...
Yes, some people pirate everything they can, but most people pirate things they want to play, but wouldn't waste their money on. For example, $15 for Age of Empires 2 HD is way too much especially for the broken state it's in. I would never buy this even if I do want it. By pirating it I would be saving $15 for something like Soul Sacrifice.


Alright, so if your employer feels like you're not worth the money he's paying you to do your job - but needs the job done anyway - it's okay if he somehow "clones" you and makes your clone do the work without paying him? I mean, he wants to have the work done, but he doesn't feel like it's worth spending the money on you having to do the work, which is money he can spend on something else for his business. It's the same thing in principle - the only difference is we're replacing a video game with a person. A bit outlandish, to be sure, but I can't think of any other way to hammer home the point I'm trying to make here - that piracy literally "breaks" the whole supply and demand formula.
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You ever meet one of those Don Quixote types and just wonder "What the hell are they thinking?"
#89Lord_Shadow_19Posted 4/29/2013 1:42:05 PM
The problem with the game industry isn't used sales, it's garbage publishers like EA, Square-Enix, Activision, Capcom, and others nickel and diming you with day 1 dlc, microtransactions, even going so far as to sell you the exact same game with a different name on it.

Used game sales don't hurt Activision any more than used car sales hurt Ford.

The only difference is that video game customers enjoy taking it up the ass and continue to keep trash like EA in business while arguing that they're doing the right thing by releasing half-assed games and charging extra for the rest while having microtransactions.
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#90reincarnator07Posted 4/29/2013 1:46:32 PM
War_Fail posted...
reincarnator07 posted...
Most other industries would stop used sales if they could. Gaming is one of the only ones where it is feasible.

Used games are compared with piracy because they have the same effect on publishers. 1,000,000 used games sales brings in exactly the same amount of money to the publishers as 1,000,000 pirated copies. The fact that they were once new copies is irrelevant.


Not buying games at all is comparable to piracy because it has the same effect on publishers.

295 million Americans not buying a certain game brings in exactly the same amount of money to the publisher as 295 million pirated copies. Therefore, every single person who does not play video games is depriving publishers of revenue, just the same as if they were pirating games instead.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
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