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Final Fantasy XIII is an example of a game that shows SE is stuggling

#11SigmaHacielPosted 7/18/2013 1:23:32 PM
docman864 posted...
SigmaHaciel posted...
I don't get your definition of "struggling" then considering 13 has looked AMAZING the whole time. It just executes like a bicyclist running into a fat girl's ass.


I am not talking about how the game looks. I guess it's based on one of the interviews I've read where they were talking about design choices. They felt that they couldn't just stick to the traditional ways alone, but figuring a way out on how to make it seem refreshing on HD platforms is easier said than done. You have worry about updating the visuals which they have no trouble doing, but you also have to worry about many other other things such as "exploration." Creating an open world for jrpgs has become a huge challenge for Japanese developers.


Called size and budget limitations, genius.

If Xenoblade was going to be a Sony exclusive, it wouldn't exist at all like it did. It was too massive to be expected to look like the latest SE jackulatory mess of an RPG.

While there is a lack of creativity and inspiration throughout the industry, it has NO origin anywhere near the "HD gen".
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#12ISquat600lbsPosted 7/18/2013 1:23:54 PM
docman864 posted...
with this generation. From the looks of FFXIII-3, it just seems like a solo rpg this time around. They say they are trying new things experimenting with new ways, but it seems like SE staffs are still struggling to get used to this HD generation. Did they run out of ideas or do they simply lack people with necessary skills to adapt? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying FFXIII-3 is going to be bad as it may still impress gamers. It's just that I've been bothered by the comment FFXIV producer made not long ago in regards to the difficulties they will face for next gen.



No, the only reason it's bad is because it had a bad writer and director. The game play concept was bad, the story was bad and they made the whole game suffer because it was made to be incredibly linear to fit the story and save time and money making the world (because making the world pretty and have good graphics was more important to them than making a good game). They ent with terrible characters that all fit into RPG stereotypes and the main character was the worst and they gave her the worst voice actress possible for the boring character.


Bad writing and design is what made XIII worse than the past great games of Final Fantasy and that's down to the people put in charge of it. XV will be better because they have the Type-0 guy co-directing it and it's being written by more competent people who have got a better concept already.
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Most of the time I'm riding bicycles and on a lot of Colombian marching powder and coffee, forgive me if I act like an #%$hole. Or not, IDC.
#13docman864(Topic Creator)Posted 7/18/2013 1:25:43 PM
SigmaHaciel posted...
docman864 posted...
SigmaHaciel posted...
I don't get your definition of "struggling" then considering 13 has looked AMAZING the whole time. It just executes like a bicyclist running into a fat girl's ass.


I am not talking about how the game looks. I guess it's based on one of the interviews I've read where they were talking about design choices. They felt that they couldn't just stick to the traditional ways alone, but figuring a way out on how to make it seem refreshing on HD platforms is easier said than done. You have worry about updating the visuals which they have no trouble doing, but you also have to worry about many other other things such as "exploration." Creating an open world for jrpgs has become a huge challenge for Japanese developers.


Called size and budget limitations, genius.

If Xenoblade was going to be a Sony exclusive, it wouldn't exist at all like it did. It was too massive to be expected to look like the latest SE jackulatory mess of an RPG.

While there is a lack of creativity and inspiration throughout the industry, it has NO origin anywhere near the "HD gen".


I like how some developers say they are good at "faking" open worlds.
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if you don't play this game, you ARE part of the f***ing problem.
#14docman864(Topic Creator)Posted 7/18/2013 1:33:21 PM(edited)
ISquat600lbs posted...
docman864 posted...
with this generation. From the looks of FFXIII-3, it just seems like a solo rpg this time around. They say they are trying new things experimenting with new ways, but it seems like SE staffs are still struggling to get used to this HD generation. Did they run out of ideas or do they simply lack people with necessary skills to adapt? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying FFXIII-3 is going to be bad as it may still impress gamers. It's just that I've been bothered by the comment FFXIV producer made not long ago in regards to the difficulties they will face for next gen.



No, the only reason it's bad is because it had a bad writer and director. The game play concept was bad, the story was bad and they made the whole game suffer because it was made to be incredibly linear to fit the story and save time and money making the world (because making the world pretty and have good graphics was more important to them than making a good game). They ent with terrible characters that all fit into RPG stereotypes and the main character was the worst and they gave her the worst voice actress possible for the boring character.


Bad writing and design is what made XIII worse than the past great games of Final Fantasy and that's down to the people put in charge of it. XV will be better because they have the Type-0 guy co-directing it and it's being written by more competent people who have got a better concept already.


if you read SigmaHaciel's comment on Xenoblade, can you actually imagine a massive world like that on ps3 or 360? depends.
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if you don't play this game, you ARE part of the f***ing problem.
#15ISquat600lbsPosted 7/18/2013 1:36:14 PM
SigmaHaciel posted...
docman864 posted...
SigmaHaciel posted...
I don't get your definition of "struggling" then considering 13 has looked AMAZING the whole time. It just executes like a bicyclist running into a fat girl's ass.


I am not talking about how the game looks. I guess it's based on one of the interviews I've read where they were talking about design choices. They felt that they couldn't just stick to the traditional ways alone, but figuring a way out on how to make it seem refreshing on HD platforms is easier said than done. You have worry about updating the visuals which they have no trouble doing, but you also have to worry about many other other things such as "exploration." Creating an open world for jrpgs has become a huge challenge for Japanese developers.


Called size and budget limitations, genius.



Yeah, because main Final Fantasy games have time and budget limitations strict enough to be worthy excuses for bad games, genius.


XII had 6 years development, XIII had almost 6, XV has had about a decade, they each have many millions of dollars to work with for each game and size isn't a notable limitation for them, they can get around that easily by using more discs and not letting weak consoles like the 360 hold them back because they have to make the games have the same content available on both systems.


XIII is a bad game because it's made by people who aren't good at making games, but have good technical staff and lots of money. Budget and size limitations aren't good excuses for the turd they served us.
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Most of the time I'm riding bicycles and on a lot of Colombian marching powder and coffee, forgive me if I act like an #%$hole. Or not, IDC.
#16SigmaHacielPosted 7/18/2013 1:39:42 PM
ISquat600lbs posted...
SigmaHaciel posted...
docman864 posted...
SigmaHaciel posted...
I don't get your definition of "struggling" then considering 13 has looked AMAZING the whole time. It just executes like a bicyclist running into a fat girl's ass.


I am not talking about how the game looks. I guess it's based on one of the interviews I've read where they were talking about design choices. They felt that they couldn't just stick to the traditional ways alone, but figuring a way out on how to make it seem refreshing on HD platforms is easier said than done. You have worry about updating the visuals which they have no trouble doing, but you also have to worry about many other other things such as "exploration." Creating an open world for jrpgs has become a huge challenge for Japanese developers.


Called size and budget limitations, genius.



Yeah, because main Final Fantasy games have time and budget limitations strict enough to be worthy excuses for bad games, genius.


XII had 6 years development, XIII had almost 6, XV has had about a decade, they each have many millions of dollars to work with for each game and size isn't a notable limitation for them, they can get around that easily by using more discs and not letting weak consoles like the 360 hold them back because they have to make the games have the same content available on both systems.


XIII is a bad game because it's made by people who aren't good at making games, but have good technical staff and lots of money. Budget and size limitations aren't good excuses for the turd they served us.


Thanks for stuffing yourself inside your own ass by selectively quoting pal.
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Don't like my opinion? Gosick. There is a reason it is MY opinion and not yours.
#17KaiKun91Posted 7/18/2013 9:10:35 PM
Although I don't hate XIII, I would have to kinda agreed that X was the last good Console/Non-spin-off FF.
#18Flare1721Posted 7/18/2013 9:33:55 PM
13 is a 7 at best nothing special nothing pathetic. Just average. 13-2 I had a lot more fun with. Getting it to be better and more fun to play. Probably an 8 from me personally. And 13-3 ill get just to finish off the trilogy. I mean SE has had 1 bad game and 2 mediocre games. They look to be rebounding back with ARR which is looking fantastic btw. And LR seems to be very kewl.

Still cant wait for FF15.
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#19AlltraPosted 7/18/2013 9:40:47 PM
Seems to me like the underlying issue is two fold.

They're experimenting with the brand, which as far as I'm concerned is a big no-no. You experiement with new IPs that don't cost a lot to produce, and have a low risk of being a financial failure. Lots of them. You take those good ideas, and you implement them in your flagship series to maintain the level of quality and style that everyone expects from them.

The other issue, is that they experimenting in all the wrong ways. Hell FFXIII and now FFXV, look like those so-called "Interactive Movie" games like Uncharted, Tomb Raider, and The Last of Us. Final Fantasy fans expect an RPG though. There's a ton of ways they can improve on the RPG formula, but it seems like they're more interested in converting the series into something completely different.

How? Just off the top of my head:

Dark Souls allows players to freely develop their characters as they want to, by allocating "Souls" into a pool that's used for Money and Experience. Why couldn't other RPGs offer that level of freedom? Instead of forced allocation of experience, why not pool it and allow players to buy stats, levels, skills, ect... as they see fit.

Encounters. Why not give players more control over when, where, and what they fight? There's a ton of ways to do it, it's been done in dozens of different ways over the years in RPGs.

Pacing controls. Why can't we get stuff like Animation Skip or Fast Forward / Slow Motion like in games such as Chrono Cross, Hexyz Force, or Cross Edge?

Replay value. Why every RPG doesn't have NG+ I'll never know. Preferably a NG+ mode like Tales or Ys, where you can earn points and select your carry over bonus of choice.

Freedom. Let players explore the content of the game however they want. Don't restrict players by cutting off access to locations. If it doesn't make sense during the main story to allow return visits, add Postgame content that has nothing to do with the main story. Don't lock out content by forcing choices on players that prevent or restrict their access to further content. You can make the choices matter, but then use Postgame or NG+ to allow players access to "The Other Options".

Cut down on the use of RNG. Nobody likes ridiculously low rates of success, or having to rely on random chance to accomplish a task. It just makes things a time sink.

Do what FFXV appears to be doing. You can make story sequences action packed, interactive, and linear for the sake of telling a story, while still allowing players freedom to explore optional content during down times.
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#20thisranksPosted 7/18/2013 10:04:17 PM
Has anyone here commenting negatively or critically ever developed a game on this gen's hardware? I'm thinking no one here has...

I can't take topics seriously when it's obvious the noobs commenting haven't walked a mile in SE's shoes. You continue to assume you know more or better than developers when you have no experience to back it up.

For the record there are those of us who have known it was going to get tougher every new generation. It took forever and a day for new RPG IPs this gen thanks to the hardware ... now imagine developing an engine for that game with the level of detail SE puts into their FF games.

No, it's you guys who make topics like this that are struggling to understand what being a gamer means.
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