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Older gamers are feeling disconnected from gamers today?

#111Axess68Posted 8/5/2014 9:28:34 AM(edited)
Tsukasa1891 : You always have to watch your back these days, and your family's backs, too. It's ridiculous, but maybe something will eventually change. The money is drying up for these agencies in the northeast US. Since they outsourced nearly all our jobs, the tax money isn't coming in like it used to.

Good thing there are games, some decent TV shows, and some excellent movies (past and present) to distract us from the crap when we need to. That's why I defend gaming so strongly when corps and others want to cheapen it and make it less accesible unless you pay your last dollar.

We will always have the classics, though. I will be playing: Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection, Midway Arcade Origins, Mortal Kombat Arcade Kollection, Namco Museum, and others until I pass from this earth. Heck, I still own an Apple IIgs and have a C64 around here somewhere. I can always dust off the old stuff and enjoy them time and time again.
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Axess2084 on PSN and Xbox Live. Gaming for almost 40 years now.
#112SmoshCuchPosted 8/5/2014 10:22:13 AM
Axess68 posted...
To the person who posted about a "difference of opinion": I can see that, yes. But, I don't know how anyone can get on board with getting fleeced and ripped off by game companies these days. A lot of people won't.

It's pretty simple to understand, really. Not everyone feels fleeced and ripped off by DLC. Some feel that it something they want, and they are willing to spend the money to get it. Others feel that it isn't necessary, and they can easily skip the DLC if it isn't worth the asking price.

Personally, I fall into the latter group. I've never paid for DLC, but I don't mind that it exists. Sometimes I've gotten it for free with collections or a GotY edition. Win-Win for me.
#113Axess68Posted 8/5/2014 10:28:40 AM
SmoshCuch, I was talking more about Pay To Win, FEE to play, disc locked content, etc. I LIKE some kinds of DLC. I liked the Borderlands 2 add-ons. I liked the Kingdoms of Amalur extra quests. When DLC is done right, it's nice and totally optional. But, when a company locks out part of the game or requires you buy things like cars to use in Forza 5, or an advantage over other people online in many games, then DLC goes too far.

I am pretty much on the same side as you when it comes to: if you don't like it, don't buy it.

I don't buy it. But, I see it starting to infect franchises I DO care about. The last thing I want to see in the future is one of my favorite franchises with half the game locked out unless you buy ther unlock code -- even after paying $60 for it. These days, that doesn't sound too far beyond the realm of possibility, does it? I'm sure you, yourself, wouldn't want to see that happen either.
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Axess2084 on PSN and Xbox Live. Gaming for almost 40 years now.
#114FuzzyJelloPosted 8/5/2014 10:37:12 AM
Terotrous posted...
It's funny how you just assume I'll be here.


Frankly, I meant that more as "Shout-out to Tero" than "I'll just leave this note here...", but that works too!

Terotrous posted...
I think there would be a great deal of merit in making a short list of games from each system that still offer something interesting even to modern audiences. It would require a very objective and discerning eye, because you wouldn't want to fill it up with games that were good for their time but have been significantly bettered since then, but if properly constructed I think it would be very helpful.


It would be a ragin' debate to come to any kind of consensus, in no small part because it would probably be crowded with top titles, but really the heart of such a list would be to open the proverbial gates to younger players and if they like what they see, discover from there.
#115TerotrousPosted 8/5/2014 10:43:13 AM(edited)
FuzzyJello posted...
It would be a ragin' debate to come to any kind of consensus, in no small part because it would probably be crowded with top titles, but really the heart of such a list would be to open the proverbial gates to younger players and if they like what they see, discover from there.

Yes, that's exactly the idea. And I have no doubt it would be very difficult to create, particularly because to know what holds up, you not only need knowledge of that one system but pretty much every system since then. It would definitely have to be some kind of community effort, where various people would suggest games and others would either agree or suggest reasons that they should not be there.
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#116Axess68Posted 8/5/2014 11:04:54 AM
FuzzyJello and Terotrous, I know some games that people these days would probably like :

SNES:
Super Castlevania IV (The Chandeleir sequences are nice platforming)
Actraiser 1
Soulblazer
Legend of Dragoon
Gradius and/or Raiden (Shmups)

Genesis:
Gauntlet IV (the only one with Dragons!)
...and some others that were included in Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection. A lot of people bought the collection.

They REALLY need to do a SNES one, but Nintendo would rather nickel and dime people on their virtual console marketplace.

It's no surprise that a game series like Fallout found its way into the PS3/360 gen. The older games hold up well.

(Sorry I couldn't come up with a bigger list, but I'm having a senior moment! ;-) )
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Axess2084 on PSN and Xbox Live. Gaming for almost 40 years now.
#117SmoshCuchPosted 8/5/2014 11:38:58 AM
Axess68 posted...
SmoshCuch, I was talking more about...

The more you detail your opinion, the more reasonable it sounds. OK, I think we agree on a lot of that.

FuzzyJello posted...
It would be a ragin' debate to come to any kind of consensus

That's putting it mildly.

Axess68 posted...
A lot of people bought...Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection

I know I did. It's in my PSP now. Well, one of two...that one's a dedicated retro machine since the analog broke.

Nintendo would rather nickel and dime people on their virtual console marketplace.

I would totally buy a Nintendo console if they started doing collections. I would love to see Zelda & metroid collections that would let me catch up on those franchises. But I have zero interest in overpriced, digital only, tied to the machine nonsense. I wish they would just put out a Zelda collection on disk like nearly every other dev does these days.
#118TerotrousPosted 8/5/2014 11:57:04 AM
Axess68 posted...
FuzzyJello and Terotrous, I know some games that people these days would probably like :

SNES:
Super Castlevania IV (The Chandeleir sequences are nice platforming)
Actraiser 1
Soulblazer
Legend of Dragoon
Gradius and/or Raiden (Shmups)

Genesis:
Gauntlet IV (the only one with Dragons!)
...and some others that were included in Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection. A lot of people bought the collection.

Actually, a lot of these games are ones I probably wouldn't include for various reasons.

I'm torn on Castlevania 4. While it is a pretty solid game, if I was going to recommend a Castlevania title it would almost have to be SotN, and it's a known fact that many people who have played the modern Castlevania games find it hard to go back.

Actraiser is a really interesting concept, but I'm not sure if it's quite well-polished enough for me to recommend it as one of the top SNES games. It's an interesting hybrid of strategy and platformer, but ultimately I don't feel the two modes of gameplay are that well-integrated. Using your performance on the action stages to determine how many people you can get in the sim stages is interesting but in practice it just comes down to farming points because there's no limit to how many points you can get. Furthermore, neither of the two modes is really incredible on their own, it's kind of a hybrid of a basic strategy game and a basic platformer without any great tie between them. I'd probably tend to just recommend two separate games instead.

Soul Blazer is a perfect example of something I definitely wouldn't put on the list. It's wholly outdone by Illusion of Gaia and Terranigma, as well as most other Action RPGs since then. It was a decent early action RPG but there's not much about it that stands out anymore.

Legend of Dragoon is a PS1 game. I think you might mean Illusion of Gaia here, following up on the Soul Blazer recommendation. IoG is pretty good, but if I'm recommending one game from that series there's no question it's Terranigma. Terranigma has a really unique and powerful narrative that still holds up pretty well, and its gameplay is also quite well-polished.

I definitely wouldn't go with Raiden Trad or Gradius 3 for shmups on SNES. Gradius 3 has solid mechanics but a horrible framerate, while Raiden Trad is just kind of generic. If you want a shmup from SNES, your best choices are Firepower 2000, Pocky and Rocky, and Pop'n Twinbee, each of which is very well made and has some unique mechanics. (R-Type 3 is also a good game, but I'd go with R-Type Final for the R-Type series. Ditto Gradius 5 for Gradius).

Gauntlet is one of the prime examples of a game that's fairly hard for new players to get into. The best introduction to the series is probably Gauntlet Dark Legacy, or failing that the new Gauntlet that's coming to Steam looks to be pretty accurate to the classic games while also modernizing it to some extent.
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#119TerotrousPosted 8/5/2014 12:13:44 PM(edited)
Anyway, my thoughts on other games from the SNES era, to give some insight as to what my thought process would be:

Chrono Trigger is obvious. There's also a really strong case to be made for Super Mario World and Link to the Past. All of those are still easily among the best in their genres. There's a debate to be had between Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion, but it's also pretty safe.

Biker Mice from Mars is also an easy recommendation, it's easily the most enduring 2D Racing game, and quite possibly the only one from this era I'd bother with.

Even though NBA Jam TE has long been one of my favourite SNES games, I'm becoming increasingly convinced that NBA Hangtime on N64 is actually the definitive Jam experience. NHL '94 is probably trumped by NHL 14's anniversary mode. Tecmo Super Bowl is better on NES.

Among other RPGs, no Secret of Mana, SD3, Tales, or Star Ocean. All are trumped elsewhere (much as it hurts me to throw SoM under the bus as it was once my favourite game). Lufia 2 and Mario RPG warrant consideration, but my top picks outside of CT would be Robotrek, Live-A-Live, and Shadowrun, all are quite unique and give a good showcase of how devs were starting to experiment in this era.

You could consider Super Bomberman 5, but I think Bomberman Generation is probably the best Bomberman game. Still, it doesn't have the Rooeys (it's really Dodge Battle that sells Generation), so maybe there's place for two Bomberman games.

I still stand by Aerobiz and Simcity as strategy games go. These games have a certain elegant simplicity to them that still holds up extremely well compared to modern strategy games. I remain convinced that people will eventually realize that SimCity Classic is the best SimCity game, its design is just much tighter than SimCity 2000 and later games. Aerobiz is very analogous to Risk, which has proved very enduring over the years.

For platformers, Megaman X, Donkey Kong Country 2 and Kirby Super Star are all obvious picks. I think Legend of the Mystical Ninja actually is the well-integrated hybrid that Actraiser wishes it was. Sparkster is also a really solid game. I'm very torn on Yoshi's Island, collectathons have really fallen out of favour and I'm not sure how much patience people would have for this game these days. I'm also not sure if EVO is quite good enough to go here, it's certainly very unique but the combat is a little off. There's a few other games like Demon's Crest and Plok that you might list, but honestly SNES probably has enough platformers already.

For puzzle games, probably The Lost Vikings. I might also consider Lemmings and the recently-discovered Pieces. Most other SNES puzzle games are better on N64 or GC.

I'm not sure if I'd recommend any beat-em-ups on SNES. It has some good ones, for sure, but beat-em-ups are starting to become abundant on digital platforms and their mechanics are much better for accessibility compared to the old ones.

The 16-bit era has one fighting game worth caring about and SNES doesn't have the best version of it. I have no idea what I'd do about wrestling games. Saturday Night Slam Masters is great fun, but it's definitely got some issues, most notably its bizarre and generally nonresponsive special move controls.


That ended up being way longer than I expected so I won't give my thoughts on Genesis right now, but the process would be generally similar. Basically, I'm looking for games I can recommend without any big caveats.
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#120FuzzyJelloPosted 8/5/2014 12:17:43 PM(edited)
And then Nintendo avoids the question and devolves our conversation into squabbling with the counterpoint; "...but do these games have any worth?"

Nintendo lives in a bubble on pricing, sure (as does Square, and how!), but you're not getting the entire, say, Zelda franchise 1984-2011 on a Wii U disc just because it has the capacity for it. The fact that Joe Schmoe can emulate over the half the series for free- or more pertinently, Steam selling PS2/Xbox ports for $10-15, though no console manufacturer is going to match that- has never suddenly meant that any of those games are worth zilch. Very little, sure, but never zilch.

Really, Nintendo is in the unique bind of having series spread across all types of hardware, versus every other collection ever in which every game is likely from a single console or (past console port, regarding arcade games), be it the NES, Genesis, or the PS2.

Terotrous posted...
FuzzyJello posted...
It would be a ragin' debate to come to any kind of consensus, in no small part because it would probably be crowded with top titles, but really the heart of such a list would be to open the proverbial gates to younger players and if they like what they see, discover from there.

Yes, that's exactly the idea. And I have no doubt it would be very difficult to create, particularly because to know what holds up, you not only need knowledge of that one system but pretty much every system since then. It would definitely have to be some kind of community effort, where various people would suggest games and others would either agree or suggest reasons that they should not be there.


It'd be a place where different age groups could actually contribute their being different age groups, since part of it is the "nostalgia test" of the "Give a new player a game you loved ten, fifteen years ago and if they love it there's actually something to it" variety. Of course that is almost certainly the biggest mine in the whole thing, but its a conversation.

FuzzyJello and Terotrous, I know some games that people these days would probably like :

SNES:
Super Castlevania IV (The Chandeleir sequences are nice platforming)
Actraiser 1
Soulblazer
Legend of Dragoon
Gradius and/or Raiden (Shmups)

Genesis:
Gauntlet IV (the only one with Dragons!)
...and some others that were included in Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection. A lot of people bought the collection.


I have never played Gauntlet or Gradius in any form yet, I have Life Force on the Virtual Console and that seems to be in a very similar vein, both being Konami. With Gauntlet I have no clue where to start!