I need to play through this game

#1FooFightersFanPosted 2/23/2012 7:06:14 AM
I have been a big fan of the Suikoden series for a long time - my brother owned the original and I basically played each game as it came out, although I waited awhile to play V since I wasn't very impressed with IV. I've played all but Tactics and Tierkris and I feel like I need to get some experience playing each game.

So here's what I know about Tactics: it is related to Suikoden IV and is apparently quite fun. I've also heard that it can be challenging, at least least in comparison to the other games which are quite easy. I've also heard its pretty fun and a nice little strategy RPG. Since I'm a fan of games like FF tactics, Vandal Hearts, Disgaea, etc. I think I'd enjoy this game. I also have a copy available to play.

So what's the point of this thread, you ask? Well, I have a lot of games on my plate to play and this one just isn't in that top radar. I also don't have a lot of time to play, because I work so many hours during the week. That leaves the weekend. Lately, I've been playing PS3 games that I haven't gotten around to. So I need someone to convince me to start up this game and stick with it. Sticking with games seems to be another issue I have.

Hopefully I can get some background info on the game, why its worth it to play, strategies and things to look out for. No spoilers please- at least not major spoilers!
#2davinfectedPosted 2/24/2012 6:26:07 AM

i found that this game redeemed a lot of suikoden 4's disappointments  (except in terms of graphics and cutscenes) but there's no need to worry about sea travel because you just click on the next location on the world map and you're there.

there is a lot of interaction between characters in this game - you can chat during combat to increase their "good will" (which improves their co-op attacks and chances of defending eachother) and there are occasional camp fire scenes, so a lot of the returning characters from Suikoden 4 are a lot more fleshed out in this game.

if you have a save file from suikoden 4 in which you got 108 stars, then its well worth loading it onto this game to get some awesome unlockable characters (i'm avoiding spoilers here) and when i did meet up with old S4 characters for the first time playing tactics, it was similar to the kind of excitement i felt meeting S1 characters in S2.

Tactics does have a weak storyline compared to the other games, but you won't really care once you get the hang of the gameplay and start recruiting more characters. it also ties up a few loose ends from S4, in case you had any WTF? moments during that game, and you get to explore the Kooluk Empire, which was only touched on in S4.

Tactics does offer a challenge - in that you do have to THINK your way through a battle situation. Its not like the main series where you just click "auto" to skip through encounters and then unleash all your runes on the boss at the end of the dungeon. Runes are more restricted in this game - for example, fire, lightning, earth etc. runes can only be used by mage type characters. Your warrior characters can equip runes that suit their weapons, e.g. great hawk rune for archers, titan rune for broadsword users, lion rune for claw users, and these runes come with different techniques which affect different formations of enemies, so they come in handy a lot more than in the regular suikoden games. There are also "passive" characters you can take into battle, who can't attack, but they do offer special abilities such as infinite healing, treasure finding, stealing and storage access.

there's also a Quest Guild feature, which gives you all sorts of mini missions - some of these activate extra battles to fight in, and completing them will reward you with money, skill points (for upgrading people's stats) and more characters to join your cause. you also get creatures to ride on, to increase characters' mobility during combat.

 

So there, hope that helps. lots to offer for a spin-off title.

#3DarthMordechaiPosted 2/26/2012 5:49:34 AM
I like Tactics, because it actually makes IV worthwhile. I know it's kind of bad that they had to release another game to make that happen, but it is what it is

I also like how it rounds off Kooluk and, to a lesser extent, the Island Nations. At the end of IV the Island Nations fight off the Kooluk advance, but it doesn't really tell you about what happened after that. Tactics actully gives the area an ending, although the ending itself leaves a lot to be desired IMO

Like essentially all Tactics games, it can be difficult at times, and the last boss is an actual challenge. The amount of times it beat me on my first playthrough was kind of a lot more then I'd be willing to admit. I got him in the end though, that *******

Oblivion is...well...I still don't really like it. I did about 4/5 early characters who I realised weren't very good before they hit level 2, but now I have a level 11 person who is a lot better. By making his major skills all the magics and speechcraft, by never using magic I can completely control when I level up

This is a long and kinda boring process though. I'm willing to do it, of course, but I really don't reccomend anyone else do that. I have some extensive notes about what quests to do at what level to get the best rewards (many of the quests give levelled equipment, so it's best to wait for a higher level to get the equipment)

I spend time exploring caves and castles, which all look identical, until I can guarentee the highest stat upgrades on level up, then I spam magic until I do level up. Doing this, I've maxed my strength and nearly my endurance, so I hit things hard and get the most HP boost at every level up. Really, anything beyond that is just uneccessary for your base stats, especially for someone who doesn't use magic

I jump through enough hoops to get the quests that give good equipment, so when I reach the right level I can quickly start and finish them to quickly become a God. It's just reaching that point that will bore me to death. I can't do the Dark Brotherhood quests, the only good ones in the game, until I'm level 30. 30! It's going to take forever

I'll stick with it though, because I'm really dumb
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My friends call me Hadoken because I'm down-right fierce
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#4Spiteful_CrowPosted 2/26/2012 6:09:50 AM
I wish Konami would do a strategy Suikoden game with all the elements of the main series of Suikoden - 108 characters, HQ, grand political story, some sort of true rune at the center of it all. I'm not really a big strategy RPG player, but I really liked Tactics.

Speaking of strategy games, I finished Jeanne D'Arc not too long ago. I was going to go through and complete as much as I could but I've put it aside for a week and I don't really feel like playing it at the moment. It is a really fun game though, so if you have a PSP I'd recommend checking it out. It's not terribly complicated and the difficulty doesn't really ramp up too much until the end. The last boss ended up being a lot easier than I thought the first time I fought it (and died). There's the boss itself, which takes up 9 squares, four towers that either damage your party or heal the boss, and then demons showing up pretty much every turn. The first time through I tried to take out the towers but the boss and demons overwhelmed me. The second time I went after the boss directly.

It being 9 squares is important, because some skills will hit multiple squares, and then some of those will also hit one enemy multiple times if it is more than one square big. So I rushed it with some lancers, who were able to hit the boss 7 times a turn with one of their skills, and then my magic user could hit it 9 times with a spell. It only took about 3 turns doing it that way.

I'm not big on overly complex strategy RPGs. The only one like that I really enjoy is Final Fantasy Tactics, and even then I can never beat it legitimately because I don't plan ahead for some of the hard fights. At least with Suikoden Tactics your party members have defined roles, so there's never a sense that you're screwing the game up if you don't build them a certain way.

I'll be starting up Devil Survivor 2 once it's delivered, which is sort of a turn-based/strategy hybrid - you move around on a grid but then go to turn-based fights for individual enemies. Or at least that's how the first game did it, I assume it will be the same.

Oh, and happy birthday a few days late, Darth.
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"Truth and clarity are complementary."--Niels Bohr
#5davinfectedPosted 2/26/2012 12:56:31 PM

well, if you do the ruins of obel enough times, then the final few levels of Tactics are a pushover.

 

My biggest disappointment with Tactics, though, is that there's no epilogues saying what happens to each character after you finish the game. You get all the main characters together discussing what they're gonna do, but you don't hear from all the little guys who tagged along (some of whom had major roles in S4), which would have been nice. But the chat command during combat was a very nice touch.

#6FooFightersFan(Topic Creator)Posted 2/26/2012 5:46:02 PM
Thanks for all the responses. I'll be working less in about two weeks so I'll have time to start on this game. This thread can be a perfect segway into my experience of playing through this game - I hope I like it! I always imagined this game to be pretty hard, or to at least have a big learning curve (based on nothing, really).

I *had* a save file of IV with all 108 stars, but I don't think I have it any more. I actually played through that game twice, believe it or not! My brother may have a memory card with a save. If not, I might run through it again with a guide and see how quickly I can do it. I'd dread the seafaring though.

Per Oblivion: I actually spent a TON of time trying to max my stats as early as possible. It took a lot of ingenuity and a bit of turning the difficulty down and letting enemies whack me over and over again to get my heavy armor skill up so that I could get the 5x endurance multiplier. I had fun with it, though, and didn't care too much about getting leveled gear, because I went for the Knights of the Nine stuff pretty early and that armor can be upgraded once you hit each new level phase, unlike other leveled equipment rewards. If you have the expansion, definitely go for that.

I got bored of it - I had maxed my strength, endurance, and I think I had 95 speed. My character wasn't actually as good as I though he'd be, the Oblivion Gate creatures still did a number on me. I need to revisit that save at some point to finish the main game and do some quests in the Shivering Isles.

I actually bought 2 new two player games to play with my buddy last weekend - we played through a few missions of Cursed Crusade. It was good enough, but pretty simple and easy. It got terrible reviews, but its a fun game to play with a friend (and drink some beers while doing so).

Last night we bought the X-men arcade game, and played through that in about 30 minutes. Then, we bought Castle Crashers which took about 6 hours with 3 people and was pretty entertaining. All three of us said it was actually the most interesting game we've played in awhile. That game is definitely worth a try at $15.
#7Hotel_SecurityPosted 2/27/2012 1:50:27 PM
So here's what I know about Tactics: it is related to Suikoden IV and is apparently quite fun. I've also heard that it can be challenging, at least least in comparison to the other games which are quite easy.

I would say that Suikoden Tactics is okay and a big improvement over the drivel that was Suikoden 4. It’s not bad on the challenge but frankly, you can abuse the terrain quite nicely to demolish most enemies with little issue. However, the Cave of Obel is an optional area that is quite a good challenge and has some good replay value with different floors.

if you have a save file from suikoden 4 in which you got 108 stars, then its well worth loading it onto this game to get some awesome unlockable characters (i'm avoiding spoilers here)

Indeed, one of the unlockable characters nearly breaks the game but I would have had a brutal time in the cave of Obel without him. It’s nice that his rune is actually useful in this game, unlike the last game he was in.

Tactics does have a weak storyline compared to the other games, but you won't really care once you get the hang of the gameplay and start recruiting more characters. it also ties up a few loose ends from S4

Actually, compared to S4, the story was probably better…plus it had less characters so they were able to focus on more of them. And yeah, it answers a few things from S4 though nothing about Cray’s past and the history of the Punishment Rune which I guess will forever be a royal mess that is never cleared up.

there's also a Quest Guild feature, which gives you all sorts of mini missions - some of these activate extra battles to fight in, and completing them will reward you with money, skill points

Just think of the Final Fantasy Tactics system and it’s like that (even with the exploit where you can run back and forth between towns to advance time). Though this one is a better as you need to collect items from various battles and such…plus some quests are instant failures unless you send a character with very specific skills…it may help to look up a guide so you know exactly who to send so you don’t fail half the missions.

I like Tactics, because it actually makes IV worthwhile

And amazingly it makes Hero 4 into less of a douche.

well, if you do the ruins of obel enough times, then the final few levels of Tactics are a pushover

I agree. I went through that thing five or six times to get all the dragon scales and stuff for the final missions…my main team was quite overleveled. But that happens to me in a ton of RPGs.

I haven't paid more than $7.50 for a game in like four years

*flexes biceps*


Got me beat. I usually settle for $20 or less but I usually avoid getting games online if I don’t have to so I could probably go cheaper if I tried. And yeah, if there’s a game that’s really good I still will wait a year or so if only because I have such a pile of games I can’t justify buying it. Though the ones I really want, I’ll ask for my birthday or Christmas and I’ll maybe get them as a gift. Didn’t work for Arkham City this year though but did work for Red Dead Redemption.

In other news, today is my birthday! Hurray!

Hurray! Hope you’re still drunk. Can’t get hungover if you never sober up.

by never using magic I can completely control when I level up

Ug, having to worry this much about the leveling system is what drove me nuts the first time…all this “controlling the leveling” stuff drove me crazy. And having to focus on a certain action to beef one stat drove me crazy too. I couldn’t get past this combined with my annoyance at first-person melee fighting. As a friend said, just ignore it all because the game is easy enough to do it all if you just play through it normally. Maybe just don’t use spells at first so you get damaged and raise the defense stats.
#8Hotel_SecurityPosted 2/27/2012 1:50:36 PM
I'll stick with it though, because I'm really dumb

Hee Hee.

so if you have a PSP I'd recommend checking it out.

Sadly, I can’t imagine me getting one unless the price drops to $10. It’s basically dead now and there’s like three games I want to play for it.

I'm not big on overly complex strategy RPGs

This is why I love dusting off Vandal Hearts every once in a while. It’s so simple, everyone has their roles, there’s ONE moment of branching classes (and sticking with the pure classes is the best), there’s no major penalty if someone dies and the rest is just kicking butt. I even like the fight in the middle where the four evil leaders attack you in one battle and you’re supposed to just run away but with good tactics, you can slaughter them and walk out of the fight at your leisure. The first few Shining Force ones are alright though I never finished SF2 after getting bored with it.

Last night we bought the X-men arcade game, and played through that in about 30 minutes

I hope you used Colossus just so you could use his “HRRRRRRRAAAAA!!” special attack over and over again.

Me, I’m the champion of the world for finally getting the Mr. Perfect challenge in Mega Man 9 this weekend...which is beating the game with no hits. You can save after the first eight levels but there’s no saves for all the four Dr. Wily levels and you have to go through all eight bosses in a row before fighting Dr. Wily which killed almost all my runs. I FINALLY did the damn thing on Saturday morning after a ridiculous amount of tries and much gnashing of teeth and rending of garments. I’d never gotten past the boss rush part with no hits before and when I did I was a nervous wreck before fighting Wily but I’d done it enough times that I knew how to react to every attack. Plus I saw a video using a pause method to see what attack Wily would do before he did it so I could react accordingly and that helped. But either way, I rule and I got my 100% of all the Challenges in that game. I have Mega Man 10 waiting but I need a break from the little guy…apparently they have the same challenge in that game but I read you can go on easy mode to save in between Wily levels so I may do that. Even if it’s cheap, I don’t care…up until I got it, the run in MM9 was quite soul-crushing.

Still playing Dante’s Inferno and it’s not bad…though a bit repetitive with fights as I get into the later levels…they may have run out of ideas. Either way, the atmosphere is still quite evil and gruesome so I like that. I also stopped using the cross weapon since it’s so broken that it’s demolishes everything if you use it…It knocks back all the monsters and does far more damage than the scythe. So I’m sticking with a “scythe-only” melee playthrough to spice it up. There’s also a spell that creates an armor that heals you and you can combine that with a relic that refills MP which could give you infinite healing…I try not to use that too. Not sure why they made these so unbalanced. It’s a good challenge without those two though.
#9AsmodeanBTPosted 2/27/2012 1:55:31 PM
So I finally completed Deus Ex: Human Revolution after having trouble remembering how you actually play it and getting stuck on the third boss till I read that you can just throw 2 frag grenades at him to insta-kill him at the start.... I continue to maintain that the boss battles are the most mind numbingly dumbest designs of the game. Possibly of any game.

And you know, for a game with 4 endings it's quite an accomplishment to have them all suck. For ***** sake, some closure people, it's not too much to ask for after spending several hours with him to actually know what happens to him and everyone else is it?
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Prejudice is a great time saver. It enables you to form opinions without bothering to get facts.
#10DiviDudePosted 2/27/2012 2:46:07 PM
^^^ From what I understand, Deus Ex HR's boss fights were outsourced to some third party game designer - which explains why they feel so disjointed from the rest of the game.

That being said, only the first one really bothered me because I wasn't at all prepared for it. The others were more like "eh, whatever."