Some questions about the game (beginner)

#1AABCCEGPosted 10/29/2012 4:52:54 PM
Hello.
I have read the instruction manual as well as the battle system sections on the FAQs here (well, after a completely unnecessary spoiler, I stopped reading the FAQs) but there are things I still don't understand about the battle system (basically, all of it).

My main problem is that I don't understand how turns work. I know there are no longer defensive turns but I can't figure out what is going on most of the time. So, I start a battle (normal mode on system options) and nothing happens until I choose a card, but if I enter the battle with a full delay bar (which depends on the state of the heart bar that I fill when I fly), I have to wait until said bar disappears. My enemy and I wait until my delay bar disappears and I choose cards. By that point, I check the upper left icons to see who, supposedly, goes next but, in the middle of the battle, I'm given the option to choose cards when it's supposedly not my turn yet... so I choose cards but my characters doesn't do anything until later. When I'm choosing cards and I hit B to discard cards, the character face in the bottom left of the screen keeps disappearing and re-appearing, why is that?
Are turns based on the delay bar? I mean, the next turn is just for the character that had it's delay bar disappear first?
When is my actual turn, when I choose cards or when my character actually attacks? Why it's not like the first game in which you choose cards and the action takes place right afterwards?
Also, the instruction manual says a lot about how the MP bar is used, but nothing about how to fill it! The character in the church says something like "you get higher mp per card used..." but I don't see the bar moving with each card I choose.
The fact that Guillo controls herself at the very beginning of the game made everything more confusing for me.

Oh god, I just don't understand this game, I had no problems completing the first one and understanding its mechanics.
I hope someone could help me, I want to love this game as I did with the first one.
#2OrnerySpoonPosted 10/29/2012 8:23:38 PM
Well, I'm not sure I can explain things any better than the other sources, but I'll try.

-This game's concept of "turns" is different that BKEWLO's. When Sagi's delay bar empties, you get to choose what cards you want him to play. Once you have finished selecting your hand, Sagi will be queued to act. So there will generally be a delay between when you tell Sagi to do something and when he actually does it, based on what other enemies/allies finished deciding what they want to do first.

-The icons in the upper left show which characters are queued to act. As stated above, Sagi is not queued to act until you finish selecting his hand.

-DIscarding is technically an action and constitutes a turn. The more cards you discard, the longer the character has to wait for their next turn. Right now you can only discard one or two cards at a time so Sagi is using his turn and almost immediately getting a new one, which is why his face is constantly disappearing and reappearing like you mentioned. Note that, unlike normal actions, discarding doesn't require a character to get 'queued", it simply fills up the delay bar a bit.

-MP is indeed charged by using cards. Healing/supplemental cards fill it negligibly, attacks fill it a little, and special cards like Will and Taunt increase it a lot. Note that your MP rises faster at higher class levels, so right now at the start of the game it is filling at its slowest.



And since I'm not sure how well I covered it above, let me try another way at handling the whole "turns" issue. Here's the basic flow.

->Sagi's delay bar empties
->You input commands for Sagi
->Sagi takes his place at the end of the attack queue.
->Once Sagi reaches the front of the queue, he performs the action you input earlier.

All in all, that's probably the hardest thing to get used to - your attacks no longer execute immediately. This is presumably to speed up the battle system so that you can be inputting commands for one character while another is acting, but it's still very confusing and intimidating when you aren't used to it.

Anyway, I hope I was able to help you out a little. If you have any more quesitons or need further/different elaboration on this stuff, feel free to ask. Practice will help too, of course; it can help to just stick around the earlier areas and fight some weaker mobs just to get the hang of things, although I'd recommend that you at least try to get far enough to where Guillo is playable (or even the third party member) so that you can get used to the group synergy and teamwork and things.
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You can wax my huge spoon.
#3AABCCEG(Topic Creator)Posted 10/29/2012 9:31:40 PM
Thank you very much, your post was actually more helpful than the FAQs I read here.
I played for almost 2 hours before my post and got frustrated after so many fights without understanding the basics of the game.
Sadly, there are still things I don't understand.

So, choosing cards and having your character "do" the cards are actually 2 different instances, I understand; my turn is the instance in which I'm choosing cards right? and how do I know when it's my turn? Cause the cards don't change color or anything, and I can still move the cursor on them and all, so far it is like I am randomly given the option to press A in the middle of someone else's actions.
This is my most important question: the order in which your actions take place depends on how fast you choose your cards so you get earlier in the queue or they just follow the same order of the turns?

Thank you very much, I feel very stupid.
#4AABCCEG(Topic Creator)Posted 10/29/2012 9:39:57 PM
AABCCEG posted...
how do I know when it's my turn? Cause the cards don't change color or anything, and I can still move the cursor on them and all, so far it is like I am randomly given the option to press A in the middle of someone else's actions.
Thank you very much, I feel very stupid.


I think that my turn is when my face appears in the bottom left of the screen but I still don't understand what has to happen, after my first turn, for my next turn to take place.
#5OrnerySpoonPosted 10/29/2012 9:49:41 PM
AABCCEG posted...

I think that my turn is when my face appears in the bottom left of the screen but I still don't understand what has to happen, after my first turn, for my next turn to take place.


You're right about the face - that's what signifies a character is ready for you to input another action.

As for the time between turns, that's what the delay bar is. When Sagi acts, his delay bar will fill based on what you had him do - it will fill a little if you only use a weak attack, but it will fill a lot if you have him use three attacks and a finisher, for example. So Sagi acts, and that fills the delay bar, and once the delay bar empties, you can input a new action for him. That action gets queued, and eventually he performs that action, and the cycle repeats.

Or, to build on the previous list:

1) Sagi's delay bar empties
2) You input commands for Sagi
3) Sagi takes his place at the end of the attack queue.
4) Once Sagi reaches the front of the queue, he performs the action you input earlier, and fills Sagi's delay bar.
5) goto 1
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You can wax my huge spoon.
#6AABCCEG(Topic Creator)Posted 10/29/2012 10:53:32 PM
Thank you, you are very kind.
I definitely understand the game better now.
#7Alfieri xPosted 10/30/2012 7:49:42 AM
Just wait until you perform Relay Combos, that's where fun really starts, and make this battle system more fun than the previous one.
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"I call upon thee in the land of the dead, to unleash thy fury of thunder.... Indignation!!!" - Genis Sage
#8kratos9797Posted 10/30/2012 9:12:49 AM
Since this is already a topic for "beginners" to BK:O I have a fairly simple question. How do I mix multiple(3+) ingredients when mixing quest magnus?
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Kratos9797, Official leader of the Shieka Shadow Corp and member of the Knights of Safe Haven.
#9VilurumPosted 10/31/2012 12:04:25 PM
Also, when there's more than one (controllable) character ready to act - that is, not in the queue, their delay bar is empty, they're not KO'd or anything - then you can switch back and forth between them with ... I want to say it's pushing the yellow C-stick left and right, but don't hold me to that.

That way, if you'd prefer to have Sagi heal someone and then Guillo attack, but it's currently Guillo's turn, you can switch to Sagi, do the healing, and then let Guillo take action. Needless to say, this sort of information doesn't apply until Guillo's actually controllable. (Spoilers: you get to control Guillo rather than have him/her on autopilot the whole game.)

Targeting works similarly to the first game, where you select your target first, and only then confirm what magnus you're going to use on them. You may stumble a bit with unintentionally healing the wrong person before you get the hang of that, but since it sounds like you've already played the first game, you should pick it up pretty easily.

To the person wondering about magnus mixing: I forget the exact "what buttons do you press and when?" details, but you basically want to mix two items, fight X battles for them to become partially mixed (X will vary depending on the mixer and possibly depending on what you're trying to make; I forget that part), and then move the third card into the mixer. (Again, I forget exactly what buttons you push, while pointing at what, to accomplish that, but it shouldn't be too tough to figure out with experimentation.)
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- Vilurum Xaren, leader of the happy turtles, and knowitall.
... And if you can't spell "Vilurum", call me "Vil". :)
#10kratos9797Posted 10/31/2012 1:01:10 PM
Ah k, thanks.
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Kratos9797, Official leader of the Shieka Shadow Corp and member of the Knights of Safe Haven.