Why is it so much easier to solo than group?

#21IsiliaPosted 3/28/2013 4:56:46 AM
FFXI: Killing crabs until lv.60 since 2001 (ok it's a lot different now but GOD do I hate crabs after that game)

Most online games are going towards having most of the game being a solo RPG w/ a built in chat feature. Even FFXIV is going down that route by using the guild warsesque bosses that if you're in the immediate area, all the people there are your party members. Because everyone else is a terrible player and I shouldn't associate myself with such rabble!

I do enjoy partying with a wizard in this game. It's always fun watching your friends get curbstomped by leoric.
#22Ryyaann_Is_BandPosted 3/28/2013 6:43:13 AM
From: Dionex247 | #001
Or is grouping really that flawed?


Grouping really is that flawed, especially in public games. It doesn't help the fact that you have people with low dps trying to leech from the group.
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#23Mad_Cow46Posted 3/28/2013 7:08:24 AM
Ryyaann_Is_Band posted...
From: Dionex247 | #001
Or is grouping really that flawed?


Grouping really is that flawed, especially in public games. It doesn't help the fact that you have people with low dps trying to leech from the group.


It also doesn't help that people leach loot. Oh wait nevermind.
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#24MSN 04 SazabiPosted 3/28/2013 7:14:23 AM
uh, i leeched loot from my barb friends all the time way back

not in a d2 sense but i ran around like a headless chicken and picked up the loot after the elite died
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#25CoontemptusPosted 3/28/2013 8:42:11 PM
Mad_Cow46 posted...
Coontemptus posted...
If you think solo is easier, you're doing it wrong.

The game is absolutely trivialized when you add multiple people to a single player game.


You don't even know what you are talking about.


So, splitting the number of elites in half or in fourths while not increasing their damage any noticeable amount doesn't trivialize the game?

LOL

Not to mention most bosses don't change their tactics AT ALL when fighting multiple opponents, making the already pathetic bosses in this game even more of a joke.
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#26TheAngryChocoboPosted 3/28/2013 9:43:29 PM
Coontemptus posted...


So, splitting the number of elites in half or in fourths while not increasing their damage any noticeable amount doesn't trivialize the game?

LOL

Not to mention most bosses don't change their tactics AT ALL when fighting multiple opponents, making the already pathetic bosses in this game even more of a joke.


The game's difficulty is trivial on any setting when you're properly geared. Multiplayer isn't any harder, it just takes longer and feels like the other players are slowing you down.

IMO What D3 lacks is offensive synergy between the classes. I can count 4 skills that I can think of off the top of my head that increase damage for the whole party, and only one of them has a greater % increase than monster HP is given in even a 4 person party at any given time (Mantra of Conviction). Others have ridiculous cooldowns(Big Bad Voodoo) or have really small areas of effect (Slow Time & Marked for Death).

In D2, Every class brought at least one aura from their merc, and could potentially bring several others if they had the right Runewords. Not to mention the Paladin can bring one of his own, The Barb can increase your skills by 1, The Sorc can add fire damage to your weapons (or army of skeletons), The Druid had the Heart of the Wolverine to increase damage, and the Necro could curse the monsters. All of which on their own increased the party's damage more than the increased HP of the monsters for having an extra player, not to mention that if you had diverse elemental builds in the party, elemental immunities which would really slow a single player down become trivial.
#27Dionex247(Topic Creator)Posted 3/28/2013 10:27:19 PM
TheAngryChocobo posted...
Coontemptus posted...


So, splitting the number of elites in half or in fourths while not increasing their damage any noticeable amount doesn't trivialize the game?

LOL

Not to mention most bosses don't change their tactics AT ALL when fighting multiple opponents, making the already pathetic bosses in this game even more of a joke.


The game's difficulty is trivial on any setting when you're properly geared. Multiplayer isn't any harder, it just takes longer and feels like the other players are slowing you down.

IMO What D3 lacks is offensive synergy between the classes. I can count 4 skills that I can think of off the top of my head that increase damage for the whole party, and only one of them has a greater % increase than monster HP is given in even a 4 person party at any given time (Mantra of Conviction). Others have ridiculous cooldowns(Big Bad Voodoo) or have really small areas of effect (Slow Time & Marked for Death).

In D2, Every class brought at least one aura from their merc, and could potentially bring several others if they had the right Runewords. Not to mention the Paladin can bring one of his own, The Barb can increase your skills by 1, The Sorc can add fire damage to your weapons (or army of skeletons), The Druid had the Heart of the Wolverine to increase damage, and the Necro could curse the monsters. All of which on their own increased the party's damage more than the increased HP of the monsters for having an extra player, not to mention that if you had diverse elemental builds in the party, elemental immunities which would really slow a single player down become trivial.

Good post.
What was Blizzard smoking when they designed D3?
#28The_Undying_84Posted 3/29/2013 2:49:16 AM
Compared to D2, there aren't things like immune monsters, auras, and war cries so there's no particular reason having another class/build to back you up would offset the increased monster strength unless the other players are as strong or stronger than you. Now I'm not terribly familiar with the classes besides Barb and Wizard, but looking through all the skill descriptions, only a few Monk skills mentioned buffing allies and not just the player, and I have no idea if those are actually useful skills. That doesn't exactly foster team work, I mean compare it to Pally's in D2, two thirds of their skills were there to benefit the party.

Basically the advantage of having more people in D3 is pretty much purely addition, while it could be multiplicative in D2.
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#29Motions_NLPosted 3/29/2013 3:11:13 AM
Lord Heimdall posted...
^^^ So, you're blaming the devs because people don't feel like playing as a team (i.e. people that join but just "leech")?


MSN is right. There are no bonusses in any kind of way when playing as a team.
They should make Coop different in small ways then when you play solo, so it will be attractive to play as a team.

As for now, I don't see a single reason to play as a team, besides playing with friends for fun.
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#30RocketdotPosted 3/29/2013 11:06:05 AM(edited)
For a good (faster than solo) group you need at least 1 preferably 2 people who can permanently crowd control, and everyone should be buffing the group in some way or another.

4 barbs with similar gear and farming speed are going to be worse than solo, especially if they all have echoing fury.

Monks (have to have cyclone strike) and wizards are the best.

They should tone down monster HP in groups so it doesn't require abusive game tactics, everyone using team skills, precise coordination and very similar gear.