In my honest opinion, this is the only game... -spoilers-

#1The_Coward1337Posted 7/29/2012 5:09:40 PM
where I think the story's final boss is harder than the game's entire post game.

Half of the reason is how to become powerful, with the whole soul releasing for the items. There is a 80% chance you would give it to your most powerful member who, is usually, the main character.

However, at the second phase, all that is sacrificed for a new character, who gets no bonuses from all that stats. A second play through probably suggests otherwise, but still, how could anyone see that coming from their first play through, unless they read it online or saw it elsewhere?

In post-game, you still have the main character, so she'll still have all that power. Its a matter of patience, because honestly most of the post-game bosses just have too much HP. *seriously, the gap between lezard's hp and freya's is stupid."

That's how I felt anyway.
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I probably feel the same way as all the Mega Man fans. ~ Keiji Inafune on Capcom
#2Mad_CartoonistPosted 7/29/2012 8:34:03 PM(edited)
Well, as far as I know, Alicia did NOT gain significant boost.
It's just that any damage done by characters that is not Valkyrie is divided by 10. Which is why it seems as if she was the only one who does the biggest damage.
Also, Valkyrie gets all the skills Alicia has, and started with a pretty good weapon.
You can't really get that much stat boost items in main game, so the addition per item is very neglible. (Again, AFAIK)
Lezard can still be pwn to Hell if Valkyrie is given the right accessory and equipment. Sure, base stats help. But it's the attack multipliers stacked from Sealstones, Skills, and Accessories that made the difference.

Also, the game did NOT save itself after the final battle.
So you can use anything you want, beat the final boss, and once you load your game, your items will all be back (as long as you don't manually save after using those items). Unlike Star Ocean 3, you actually don't even have to beat Lezard. Once you made a save file at the last save point. Seraphic Gate should be unlocked.

Just pointing out >_<

I probably feel the same way as all the Mega Man fans. ~ Keiji Inafune on Capcom

^ Yay for another Rockman fan. xDDDDD
Crapcom needs to stop being crap.
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For more info, check out our HQ [http://tinyurl.com/seef-mc]
#3CrimsonchalicePosted 7/30/2012 12:32:47 PM
"where I think the story's final boss is harder than the game's entire post game."

In a way I would agree. Though mostly because none of the SG bosses has any attack with the range and multiple elemental factors as Indiffrent Judgement.

"However, at the second phase, all that is sacrificed for a new character, who gets no bonuses from all that stats. A second play through probably suggests otherwise, but still, how could anyone see that coming from their first play through, unless they read it online or saw it elsewhere?"

It is highly unlikely that you would be able to foresee that without consulting a FAQ, during your first playthrough. Buffing Valkyrie´s ATK with sealstones, skills and acc makes the fight fairly short anyway, although obviously you´d need some knowledge of the game to able to use effective set-ups.

"In post-game, you still have the main character, so she'll still have all that power. Its a matter of patience, because honestly most of the post-game bosses just have too much HP. *seriously, the gap between lezard's hp and freya's is stupid.""

I guess most of us, who didn´t resort to a FAQ during our first playthrough felt the same way. Again, more offensive ( and less balanced ) set-ups makes a world of difference. I remember how amazed I was when I shortened my battletime against Det Dirna from a little over 70 minutes down to less than 10 seconds.

This game offers so many playstyles.
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"C.Chalice - Dream or deceit ? Who will ever know ?"
#4AishaPosted 7/30/2012 3:44:31 PM
Crimsonchalice posted...
although obviously you´d need some knowledge of the game to able to use effective set-ups.


I think this is where the game really falls short. I think it should have been more assertive in teaching player how to create servicable set-ups during the early portions of the game, in a way without going into the details of the mathematics, stacking rules, and so forth.
#5CrimsonchalicePosted 7/30/2012 6:20:38 PM
I agree. On the other hand; Tri-Ace rarely makes games that have any extensive tutorials or guiding. Especially not during the PS2 era.
SO3 was simular with loads of factors ( primary stats buffing, canceling, fury e t c ). That game also provided numerous different strategies. You could make a character next to invincible ( at least on galaxy ) or go crazy offensive with ATK orientation and massive canceling. Like VP2 it favored players who experimented and tried out multiple set-ups and strategies.
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"C.Chalice - Dream or deceit ? Who will ever know ?"
#6Mad_CartoonistPosted 7/31/2012 5:07:51 AM
SO3 was simular with loads of factors ( primary stats buffing, canceling, fury e t c ). That game also provided numerous different strategies. You could make a character next to invincible ( at least on galaxy ) or go crazy offensive with ATK orientation and massive canceling.


8 years of playing that game with over 9 runs. I dare say there are still some stuffs I don't know about it @___@
That being said, it wasn't until third or fourth round that I begin to use the 'real' effective setups and change my play experience completely.
Before, I had to resort to Uber Setups because I can't play the game properly, lol.
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Official President of the Sophia Esteed Eternal FanClub. Current Members: 25
For more info, check out our HQ [http://tinyurl.com/seef-mc]
#7RaphaelBelmontPosted 8/7/2012 11:08:25 AM
Aisha posted...
Crimsonchalice posted...
although obviously you´d need some knowledge of the game to able to use effective set-ups.


I think this is where the game really falls short. I think it should have been more assertive in teaching player how to create servicable set-ups during the early portions of the game, in a way without going into the details of the mathematics, stacking rules, and so forth.


sorry dude but i don't agree. yet today we vets still wonder about somethings and these things increase replay value.it is explained how like a wizard using all blue itens could improve its stats by having like 4 copper coins. the others like a HW have itens like great eagle heart which IMPROVES ATTACK BY 15%. what's so difficult about that?
when i first came here i was a noob as well, but that's because i'm usually too lazy to read tutorials and alikes since i'm a pure fight games players. i discover things by playing.
i was told that the item forgot name that boosts mag by 15% is better with 3 copper coins. NO WAY. if you're all blue like the guy in coriander tells you, this last item that improves 5% improves way more than that. it's like saying tanks are good in this game. wanna beat Lezard? release only when you have Valkyrie give all to her give Arngrin 3 acc. fire +30% + metabolizer + survival have alicia learn sol. strug. magician slayer, fists of iron.the other two member you sacrifice. put Arngrim away from Lezard. f*** him with Valkyrie (you might save some exp. itens so she can learn at least a new move and not use that sh** imperious act). oh, also teach Arngrim free item and carry some break itens to restore ap. have at least valkyrie have a dragon rib, hp doesn't matter in this game.

profit.

you're welcome.
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Hearken the angel's summon. The true path shall guide you to find peace in annihilation!
#8CrimsonchalicePosted 8/7/2012 3:39:32 PM
"it is explained how like a wizard using all blue itens could improve its stats by having like 4 copper coins. the others like a HW have itens like great eagle heart which IMPROVES ATTACK BY 15%. what's so difficult about that?"

True, but all of these boosts shows up on the status screen right away. Effect multipliers on the other hand, are only activated in-battle and regardless of whether you use a physical or an elemental set-up effect boosts are what really counts for high performance. Anyone can check a number, the problem is that primary stats are next to pointless in VP 2.

"i was told that the item forgot name that boosts mag by 15% is better with 3 copper coins. NO WAY. if you're all blue like the guy in coriander tells you, this last item that improves 5% improves way more than that."

But what if you were to compare those 4 copper coins with 1 Dragon rib, 1 Bone Mask and 1 Dragon Scales on the very same wizard. Which set-up would be more effective ?

Imo, the game could have explained stacking a bit more in-depth. They should also have bothered to explain that elemental damage calculation is different when using elemental attacks compared to spells ( this eluded me completely for many years ).

Primary stats v s effect value + stacking is also the main reason why Psychosoma is such a wrecked skill in this game and how is a beginner supposed to understand that. It´s only natural that people will lock att the skill description and assume that it will effect primary stats. I mean, there are still people who use Hrist with Gungnir + multiple Magic Bangles and psychosoma and ultimately end up with an ineffective and divided set-up.
It's no surprise really since you would naturally assume that the combination is efficient, unless you take the time and study the FAQ.

Without t-aF we wouldn´t know half as much as we do to today. His FAQ.s and active participation on the board is the main reason why the VP2 community is so well informed. Imagine how hard it would have been to give recommendations if we didn't know the multipliers of attacks, acc and skills or if we were to try to explain the rather complicated MAG/Elem mechanics.

It sure would have been a different situation.....
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"C.Chalice - Dream or deceit ? Who will ever know ?"
#9AishaPosted 8/7/2012 4:29:44 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#10AishaPosted 8/7/2012 5:41:27 PM(edited)
The game does a good job instructing you on how individual systems work, like sealstones and equipment linking, and the equipment descriptions are fairly transparent, but it doesn't do a good job teaching you how to put it all together. And it doesn't make it clear that you should think outside of typical RPG conventions.

We know powerful optimized setups that make the game trivial, but when new players come here asking for help and tell us what they are doing, their setups aren't even remotely close to what we would recommend, unless they've read up on the game before playing. Now I'm not saying that I expect new players figure out the optimized setups on their own, but they should be nudged by the game toward figuring out some sort of reasonable medium.

From personal experience, during my first play through of the game, I certainly wasn't tailoring my slayer skills for each dungeon; in fact, I rarely used them. I also didn't touch the more exotic and powerful accessories, like the Bone Mask and Brilliant Peacemaker. I preferred Great Eagle Hearts, Power Bangles, Magic Bangles, and Rings of Healing. Why doubt that pushing ATK as high as I can is a good thing, right? I also didn't know that levels weren't important outside of additional CP. The end result is that I had a more difficult very tedius time with the game, with some bosses taking an upwards of 50 minutes to defeat. It wasn't until I got involved in this community that everything came together.