Speculation (Story Spoilers)

#1MimebladePosted 10/4/2012 11:33:23 AM(edited)
Just some things I'm thinking about.

I have a working theory as to just what the 3 Valkyrie Powers are:

Lenneth:
--Able to materialize non-existential objects on this dimensional plane. Be it weapons, clothing or other objects...though this may not be unique to her, Hrist shares this power as well in her ability to transform into a "human form".
--Power of Creation (similar to Freya's Ether Freeze but works on many different levels of matter)
--Able to freeze matter, but also interact with bare minimum amounts of that matter which she creates (i.e. standing on crystal dust fragments). Power originates most likely from Yggdrasil's Roots.
--Spiritual Concentration (relates to interacting with Souls on a Present or Near-Present Level, that is to say the Present Era Timeframe
--Soul transmigration (trading living souls with the dead or dying, or sending souls within herself up to Valhalla).
--Able to sense other Valkyrie souls.

Silmeria:
--Able to freeze matter, but substitute her own existence on a dimensional plane with any matter that she previously froze with her power (equal mass displacement), power originates from Yggdrasil.
--Object Reading (relates to interacting with Souls on a Past or Distant-Past Level, so long as they interacted with the object in question at any point along the timeline).
--Soul crystalization (able to 'incarnate' strong Souls and restore them to life).
--Soul merging (able to merge two souls together to form an even stronger soul, though this power is not unique to her).
--Able to sense other Valkyrie souls.

Hrist/Ahly:
--Able to materialize non-existential objects on this dimensional plane. Be it weapons, clothing or other objects...though this may not be unique to her, Lenneth shares this power as well in her ability to transform into a "human form".
--Able to sense other Valkyrie souls.
--Most likely has a Photon-related power she gained from Yggdrasil. Possibly force or impact related energy projectiles instead of photons that simply freeze.
--Able to force a human to become an einherjar against their will, living or near death.
--Possibly has a unique extra-sensory power that relates to predicting the Future (considering Lenneth can sense Present or Near Present Events, Silmeria can sense past events via objects, it is logical that Hrist has oracle-like powers or the ability to alter causality/fate).
#2Mimeblade(Topic Creator)Posted 10/4/2012 11:33:55 AM(edited)
Other things:
--I'm curious about what exactly happened between Brahms and Dylan. Did Dylan's soul disappear entirely once Brahms awoke? Or are the two merged and even stronger than previous forms?
--Is Brahms the "King" that Hrist forced to become an Einherjar? How exactly did he become an Undead? I hope the next game reveals this somehow.
--So far the only Soul that we've seen regularly incarnate is Arngrim, is this because of his ties to the Dragon Orb? Or did the Valkyries have something to do with it?
--Regarding Rufus, has anything been said about his role in the Pantheon? That is to say, did he take Odin's place? Did Freya object? Is he a representative for the Undead as well? And what about the Ring of Mylinn, does he need it anymore?
--One thing I don't get about Lezard is...how did he learn the Soverign's Rite? When did he have time to learn it, since he was still considered an apprentice by the 3 Mages of Dipan.
--Regarding the 3 Mages themselves...if they became Undead, how come they weren't much of a threat to Lenneth if they even knew the Sovereign's Rite? Was there no means to redeem Dallas?

Some ideas I wanna see in the next VP:
--Interacting with the entire soul cycle of incarnation (claiming the dead, restoring the soul, reincarnating the soul, etc).
--Flying! (Yes it was dumb but it was amazing when Lenneth did it in-game).
--Interaction with Hel and her minions (I don't know the full story behind her and how she interacts with the Valkyries).
--Extending the Aesir/Vanir mythos beyond Ragnarok. What happens to Midgard and the other levels of Yggdrasil, etc. Being able to go to other places as well.
#3AishaPosted 10/4/2012 1:54:05 PM(edited)
Mimeblade posted...
Other things:
--I'm curious about what exactly happened between Brahms and Dylan. Did Dylan's soul disappear entirely once Brahms awoke? Or are the two merged and even stronger than previous forms?
--Is Brahms the "King" that Hrist forced to become an Einherjar? How exactly did he become an Undead? I hope the next game reveals this somehow.


Refused to submit to Odin so he took ghoul powder. Much later on, Silmeria began to see from his point of view regarding the gods, so Odin turned on her. During a conflict, Brahms protected her from a fatal blow, but was seriously wounded himself. He merged his soul with one of Silmeria's einherjar (Dylan) to hide and recover.

--So far the only Soul that we've seen regularly incarnate is Arngrim, is this because of his ties to the Dragon Orb? Or did the Valkyries have something to do with it?


It's because Arngrim is a dick, so Valhalla probably just fired him. Human souls that aren't serving as einherjar eventually reincarnate.

--Regarding Rufus, has anything been said about his role in the Pantheon? That is to say, did he take Odin's place?


Based on his disappearing act during that short scene in the ending, yes; but, we can't really say for sure.

--One thing I don't get about Lezard is...how did he learn the Soverign's Rite? When did he have time to learn it, since he was still considered an apprentice by the 3 Mages of Dipan.


Did you play VP1? In that game he found the Philosopher's Stone, which gave him access to all knowledge. Sacrificing the Philosopher's Stone itself is also what let him be the only human to survive Ragnarok; it's why he leaves behind the Philosopher's Pebble if you level him to 45.

--Interaction with Hel and her minions (I don't know the full story behind her and how she interacts with the Valkyries).

--Extending the Aesir/Vanir mythos beyond Ragnarok. What happens to Midgard and the other levels of Yggdrasil, etc. Being able to go to other places as well.


VP:Covenant of the Plume features Hel, but I haven't played it myself.

During Ragnarok, everyone on Midgard dies (except for Lezard). After Ragnarok, everyone on Midgard is resurrected as an einherjar of Lenneth. So, at this point it's peaceful, but it still kind of sucks because everyone is technically dead. Eventually Lezard messes up history and puts Asgard and Midgard on schedule to fall apart completely. VP2 happens, but due to irreparable changes to history, the timeline can't be restored to its original state, but it's arguably better off because Odin is no longer around. Happy future.
#4RaphaelBelmontPosted 10/4/2012 2:41:15 PM(edited)
this is what i believe...some things are accurate, some are my opinion...

the valkyrie powers are kinda obscure so i won't guess. also the game makes no statement clear about them.

Arngrim is...Arngrim. it's fate, accept it.

Rufus now doesn't need the ring as he was materialized by Alicia. it is believed he now is the father of Asgard and whether Freya accepts of not doesn't matter, since now he is the master of gungnir.

Lezard was once the master of the philosopher's stone (no HP please) so he once possessed all knowledge of this world. he is disguised in the story just to reach the perfect time to steal Silmeria's soul. i believe he didn't used the SR that time he just took advantage of the situation and took Silmeria with him, merging with her then. later he would use the soul transfusion. he clearly used the SR only when he had the gungnir. whether he knew it or not is a mistery. well Lezard is a mistery himself.

the mages aren't much powerfull (maybe Dallas, but i believe not) so they couldn't take on a god, just use the SR as a sneaky threat as they did. Dallas is now undead. the game put it (Hrist) as if they can't be einherjar anymore. or they just don't care (most likely).

to final it i believe Ragnarok (after it) only a few beings were left alive, Lezard as the only human, some gods, some undead, etc...of course there is now 2 timelines, as in the other Lenneth is the creator who brought life back to midgard. not everything is explained openly, i guess on purpose, to leave an open idea for a sequel, perhaps...as we have an ending and another one with Lezard reincarnated, who can really tell?

i made a thread with a plot i created for VP3 out of the blue in a pure fanboy moment (i was drunk) but the day after i was reading it i found pretty good. i'll look for it and show to you later.



edit: if anyone saw my post before, my info regarding Dylan wasn't accurate(we posted at the same time), hopefully Aisha saved the day. i laughed hard about Arngrim, hahaha...if Alicia and Rufus didn't get his lazy ass up Hrist would have no choice but to fire him really, as all he does is sleep around the palace. and he IS a dick, he thought it wasn't right but yet he did kill king Barbarossa. because of that we know that Alicia's mother commited suicide. so he was responsible for killing Alicia's parents and EVEN SO she accepts him so kindly....what a pure girl. pure white.
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granting my beloved's wish, is all i can do to prove my love...eternity without her...would be nothing but emptiness...
Leon Belmont - Lament of Innocence.
#5AishaPosted 10/4/2012 2:33:38 PM
Dylan was a retainer of Dipan's royal family.
#6Mimeblade(Topic Creator)Posted 10/4/2012 3:12:06 PM
Aisha posted...
Dylan was a retainer of Dipan's royal family.


That's not what I was referring to...there's a cutscene shortly after you visit Crell Monfereign where Dylan explains to Arngrim about Dipan's Grudge against the Gods.

He mentions a King being forced into becoming an Einherjar, and it's implied that Leone (Hrist) went quiet after that...meaning either he (as Brahms) or Leone (Hrist) knew about it.

So essentially it's implied that Brahms was one of the earlier kings of Dipan, predating Barbarossa by a fair bit...only just recently merging with Dylan's Soul in desperation.
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#7CrimsonchalicePosted 10/4/2012 3:14:12 PM
"It's because Arngrim is a dick, so Valhalla probably just fired him. Human souls that aren't serving as einherjar eventually reincarnate. "

Iīm a bit interested in this. Do you have any other sort of background info ( manga, anime whatever ) on this. In the VP 2 timeline Arngrim is able to rebel against Hrist because Odin isnīt available to enforce his will ( and valhalla is in chaos ... ). In the original timeline ( VP ) this chaos never occured due to the events in yggdrasil. and itīs hard to see that Arngrim could have just left on his own accord. Obviously he was released at some point and after that considered unworthy by Asgard. Iīm somewhat interested in what happened in the from the beginning.
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"C.Chalice - Dream or deceit ? Who will ever know ?"
#8RaphaelBelmontPosted 10/4/2012 4:11:42 PM
this is just a speculation by my part Chalice but i believe he just refused tasks and Odin seeing he wasn't that great anyway, decided to let him go. We see Odin as a dictator in VP2 but perhaps he is not that bad.
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granting my beloved's wish, is all i can do to prove my love...eternity without her...would be nothing but emptiness...
Leon Belmont - Lament of Innocence.
#9AishaPosted 10/4/2012 4:44:41 PM
Yeah, it's basically just speculation based on his character and on his presence in both games.

Einherjar cannot leave on their own accord, but they can be released. Arngrim regrets what he did to Barbarossa, and he doesn't think too highly of einherjar; he sees them as lackeys of the gods. He also has a problem with authority figures (If I remember correctly). I don't think he actually rebelled; I think he was just unmotivated and uncooperative, and eventually Valhalla just became tired of his attitude and let him go (plus, his multipliers are crappy), allowing his soul to eventually reincarnate.

This explains why Arngrim is in two games set centuries apart, and why you were unable to send him up to Asgard in VP1: They already knew what they were getting and thus didn't want him.


Mimeblade posted...
Aisha posted...
Dylan was a retainer of Dipan's royal family.


That's not what I was referring to...there's a cutscene shortly after you visit Crell Monfereign where Dylan explains to Arngrim about Dipan's Grudge against the Gods.

He mentions a King being forced into becoming an Einherjar, and it's implied that Leone (Hrist) went quiet after that...meaning either he (as Brahms) or Leone (Hrist) knew about it.

So essentially it's implied that Brahms was one of the earlier kings of Dipan, predating Barbarossa by a fair bit...only just recently merging with Dylan's Soul in desperation.


Yeah, I was referring to Raphael's post.

I don't remember that particular conversation, but it's likely Brahms was that king then. I'm not sure that he ever became an einherjar though; I think he took ghoul powder to avoid it, similar to what three mages did during the execution scene.
#10CrimsonchalicePosted 10/4/2012 4:56:56 PM(edited)
Meh, heīs an ***.

Although, it could ībe related to Hristīs seal value ( memory seal ). At the end of CH 5 in VP2 she shows a certain amount of feelings toward Arnie, so maybe in the original timeline Odin decided to let him go rather than having to deal with a renegade valkyrie.

Edit: Started writing this before Aishaīs latest post came up. I still think my theory has some merit.
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"C.Chalice - Dream or deceit ? Who will ever know ?"