Somebody help me out here with my lap times....

#1kungfuj0Posted 4/15/2008 11:54:04 PM
It seems that no matter what I do, no matter how seemingly perfect a lap I run, I can never get my best lap times to be any closer than within 5-8 seconds of the record times. Now granted, I generally don't use the "scoreboard cars", but still...it seems that regardless of how I set the car up, I still come up 5-8 seconds short.

I can set the car up for power, for all handling, or for a nice mix in between, and I stil come up woefully short. As an example, I fixed up an A850 Porsche 997T yesterday, and after tuning it, I got it to run a 1:23:764 at Road Atlanta, which is a personal best time for me. The problem is that the 'best' time is a 1:17:xxx. As another example, I was talking to someone here the other day who ran a 1:51:xxx on Mugello Long in A class, and my absolute best time there is a 1:55:xxx. I think the record for Mugello is like 1:48 or so for A class, and I can BARELY do that IN MY S CLASS CARS! :(((

I'm not looking to break any records or anything, but with the times that I am running now, I'm just not as competitive as I'd like to be online, and I'm trying to figure out just what it is that I am missing.

And please don't respond with something like "You suck". I will never claim to be anywhere near the best driver in the worldl, but I am plenty experienced with this game, Forza 1, and GT 3 and 4 as well, so I know my way around a race track. I was VERY competitive on Forza 1 online, but for whatever reason, that hasn't translated as well with Forza 2. I've won a decent amount of races, but I've also gotten my damn doors blown off more times than I care to admit to this time around!

So, if you have any hints, tips, ideas, etc. throw them on the wall here, and we'll see what sticks. At this point, I'll take any help that I can get. Thanks in advace for any help you can give.

Kungfuj0
---
RIP Jericho. You were good while you lasted, son.
HAWKINS for PRESIDENT!!!
#2seankanePosted 4/16/2008 4:23:48 AM

There's not much we can tell you that you dont already know.

For one, I know you dont want to hear, "You suck!" or anything, but its true that you can probably shave off a second or possibly more by improving your driving technique. Work on perfecting your braking points, hitting every apex perfectly, getting the best exit possible. I think technique is where most people lose time and dont even realize how much room they still have for improvement(myself included).

Two, you're not going to get near those top times without a scoreboard car. Half the time, most of these cars are barely driveable, high HP monsters with traction control. Unless you're really into hot lapping and scoreboards, I'd just ignore those times. A better standard would be to look at what these champions and legends are doing with more normal cars in the races.

Three, make sure you're using a good car for the track you're on. If you're only getting 1:55 at Mugello in A class, you're either not using a good car for it, or you're simply not going fast enough(its a tricky circuit to get perfect). I can do 1:52's in an Audi TT-S without any setupwork other than changing my gear ratios and upping the downforce slightly. The rest is up to me.

Four, learn to setup cars better. I couldn't help with this cuz I dont work much with tuning, but I know plenty of people manage to shave tenths and even seconds off times with a good setup.

There's no easy way out of this to improve times. Just gonna have to sit down and get your hands dirty!

#3iiLLLLLPosted 4/16/2008 4:24:05 AM
can't comment on times cause i only drive S-Class. as for improvement, learning how to tune helps a lot. this was what i used -->> http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/606789.aspx
---
Live GT : noobstatus
#4LI_Anonymous_LIPosted 4/16/2008 5:25:14 AM

Don't bother comparing your times to the racers on the scoreboards.

I'm friends with some of the top drivers in the world and they spend a ridiculous amount of time to get those laps. They have a special tune for each individual track and run an enormous amount of free run laps.

-You have to use scoreboard cars to place high on the leaderboards. Espiecially top 100. The correct car is 90% of the battle.

-Don't bother setting times (unless its the Speedway) with opponents in the race. You'll want to be only using "Free Run" in the arcade menu. Tire and car damage are turned off in free run so you can run faster laps.

-Tuning is huge. EX: I'm not the greatest R1 driver so I kept getting smoked when the setup I was using. My buddy and I swapped some of our top setups one day and he gave me the #1 R1 driver in the worlds setup. It was disguisting how much I improved in a matter of races. I went from way behind to competitive overnight.

-If you want top times be prepared to spend an hour or two on one track to post a fast time.

-A lot of the scoreboard cars are undriveable when theres other cars around. It can be done, but if the driver hasn't mastered ir yet you're looking at major disaster. If your main concern is not being able to compete online, then don't worry about it.

All in all, its not really worth it. I use to be in the top 200 of D class overall and that took FOREVER. I didn't even post great times, I simply ran 5 laps of each track with no real setups. I can't imagine how long it would've taken if I actually put in some effort.

#5daviwinnPosted 4/16/2008 5:31:34 AM

My experience is the difference between a good racer and a really good racer is usually just two or three turns per track. For example you may be breaking where you only need to lift, or you might be down shifting into 3rd on a turn where 4th is faster. Keeping up your momentum and carrying speed out of the turns is the single most important aspect of getting fast times.

By the way your time on Road Atlanta is very respectable (my best is a 1:23.574 in an Audi RS 4). The guys running under 1:20 there are all using cars that can get up to about 200 mph on the straight. I'm working on a new A CIass car right now though, I'll post it up if it works out.

#6TRCfactoryPosted 4/16/2008 12:38:37 PM
Not all the top guys do 100's of laps to get their times. I have tons of top 50's, plenty of top 20's, and a few top 10's, and I didn't need 100's of laps to get there.

Setup is the most important part of fast laps. Gear ratio being the single most important part of it. Most people tend to use too many gears. You should be using at most 3 gears on each track, and on the shorter ones, only 2 gears is fastest. Watch the replays of the top times on Road Atlanta Short or Mugello Short and you will see most of the time people are only using 2 gears on their lap. A track like Road America will need 3 gears due to the long straights. Every shift costs you time, so less shifts = faster laps.
---
The call to arms was never true, time to imbibe, here's to you,
I'll tell you stories bruised and blue, drum machines and landslides.
#7LI_Anonymous_LIPosted 4/16/2008 1:17:45 PM

TRCfactory posted...
Not all the top guys do 100's of laps to get their times. I have tons of top 50's, plenty of top 20's, and a few top 10's, and I didn't need 100's of laps to get there.

Setup is the most important part of fast laps. Gear ratio being the single most important part of it. Most people tend to use too many gears. You should be using at most 3 gears on each track, and on the shorter ones, only 2 gears is fastest. Watch the replays of the top times on Road Atlanta Short or Mugello Short and you will see most of the time people are only using 2 gears on their lap. A track like Road America will need 3 gears due to the long straights. Every shift costs you time, so less shifts = faster laps.
---
The call to arms was never true, time to imbibe, here's to you,
I'll tell you stories bruised and blue, drum machines and landslides.


lol...I didn't say ALL top times are earned by doing 100's of laps, now did I.

Theres obviously exceptions to every situation. When will people on boards take that into account when statements like that are made. Sheesh.

#8daviwinnPosted 4/16/2008 1:30:14 PM

TRCfactory posted...
Not all the top guys do 100's of laps to get their times. I have tons of top 50's, plenty of top 20's, and a few top 10's, and I didn't need 100's of laps to get there.

Setup is the most important part of fast laps. Gear ratio being the single most important part of it. Most people tend to use too many gears. You should be using at most 3 gears on each track, and on the shorter ones, only 2 gears is fastest. Watch the replays of the top times on Road Atlanta Short or Mugello Short and you will see most of the time people are only using 2 gears on their lap. A track like Road America will need 3 gears due to the long straights. Every shift costs you time, so less shifts = faster laps.
---
The call to arms was never true, time to imbibe, here's to you,
I'll tell you stories bruised and blue, drum machines and landslides.


Hmm. I usually run 4 or 5 speeds. I'll try out even less ad maybe I'll be able to shave some more time of my laps. Thanks for the advice. I knew that each shift cost time but never considered dropping below more than a 4 speed setup.

#9Cats_of_KlibanPosted 4/16/2008 1:43:26 PM
"I'm just not as competitive as I'd like to be online, and I'm trying to figure out just what it is that I am missing."

Do you get online "jitters"? It's pretty common. It's much easier to run hotlaps or against AI than running against a real person. I get so concerned about not hitting anyone that I forget to race...lol. I've seen a lot of other people in tournaments that posted great qualification times, but get nervous and can't drive for squat when real people are in the other cars.

I think the previous posts have already covered everything I'd say except maybe a couple points:

- You don't "suck", but you do have to accept you have a general limit. I can use the same car/build/tune/raceline as a top driver and I'm still .5 to 5 seconds slower depending on the track. If my time on a track is off compared to my average handicap for tracks like that, I have more work to do. If I'm slower by 4 secs, but that is my average handicap for tracks like that, then I'm done.

- Chasing top driver ghosts can help a lot. Besides learning the real line and brake points and corner speed from them, most people seem to go fastest when chasing something.

- You can learn things from replays that may not seem "common sense", but work. I was surprised to see replays of people hanging 95% of their car off the track in some turns on the snake tracks. It doesn't even give penalty time, and wouldn't work in real life (dirty tires = bad traction) so I didn't even think to try it before seeing the replays.

I ran Road Atlanta in A class at 1:21.174 in an old Charger yesterday and that's it for me. That's my limit and I don't enjoy driving muscle cars anyhow, but if you want the faster time, the choices are limited.
A note on "other" cars = many you see that aren't the "official" leaderboard car are just as bad. People stuff insane HP in them too, so though it is a different car, it's still a wacko build.
The upside is you have options. Bad options usually, but at least options...lol...and sometimes it actually helps. Some days, for some reason, I just can't handle one of the beasts, but another beast and I get along fine.



---
*** The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. ***
#10TRCfactoryPosted 4/16/2008 7:17:43 PM
Yeah, sorry Anon. It's just I am so sick of people saying that the guys who run the top times have no other life and only play Forza 24/7. Most of the fast guys I know do have lives outside of xbox :) I play more Halo than Forza (and I suck at Halo still).

The right car, the right setup, and the right driving habits make a fast driver. I know within 5 - 10 laps approximately what my fastest time is going be. Then it all depends how much I want to chase it. I have done 50 laps or more on a couple of tracks to take off .2xx that I knew was there, but its rare that I go that far.
---
The call to arms was never true, time to imbibe, here's to you,
I'll tell you stories bruised and blue, drum machines and landslides.