If Square Enix doesn't announce anything for January within the next few weeks..

#21theofficefan99(Topic Creator)Posted 12/1/2012 8:01:21 PM
zUkUu posted...
theofficefan99 posted...
nah, nothing that needs to be slapped, I remember finding it a very weird reaction. she's just so full of herself, and oh so aloof and cool and overstylish - but it always feels like an act to me - just unnaturally forced. I'd blame the bad character writing for that tho.


Yes, he needed to be slapped. He failed to protect Serah and they just got turned into l'Cie, and there he is, yapping off, pretending as if nothing big just happened, and that he has a sure-fire plan in mind. It pissed off Lightning, so she punched him twice, and rightfully so.

She's not badly written, aside from that cheesy scene in Chapter 7's Palumpolum Sewers.

In XIII-2, though, yeah, she's horribly written.

see, that is what bugs me. he's her boyfriend, he LOVES her and is just as staggered, he just wants to find a way to get her back and will do everything he can to do so - and here comes the really helpful plan from lighting: SLAP HIM FOR CARING ABOUT HER. right, that makes sense. Snow is a bit too airheaded, but that's his nature - you don't slap someone for that, just because you feel differently. he's ready to act immediately since it's just the only thing he can do.
But to be honest, the only really good written character is Vanille - she is the only really refreshing one.


That doesn't make her a badly written character. Not liking a character does not mean that they are badly written. Lightning and Snow have clashing personalities, and it's not a surprise that Snow was pissing her off so much to the point where she had the urge to punch him twice.

Sazh, Lightning and Fang are well-written as well, IMO.
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"Dyin' is easy. It's the livin' that's hard..." Grim Reaper, Maximo vs. The Army of Zin
#22ExtremeLightPosted 12/1/2012 8:32:38 PM
zUkUu posted...
theofficefan99 posted...
nah, nothing that needs to be slapped, I remember finding it a very weird reaction. she's just so full of herself, and oh so aloof and cool and overstylish - but it always feels like an act to me - just unnaturally forced. I'd blame the bad character writing for that tho.


Yes, he needed to be slapped. He failed to protect Serah and they just got turned into l'Cie, and there he is, yapping off, pretending as if nothing big just happened, and that he has a sure-fire plan in mind. It pissed off Lightning, so she punched him twice, and rightfully so.

She's not badly written, aside from that cheesy scene in Chapter 7's Palumpolum Sewers.

In XIII-2, though, yeah, she's horribly written.

see, that is what bugs me. he's her boyfriend, he LOVES her and is just as staggered, he just wants to find a way to get her back and will do everything he can to do so - and here comes the really helpful plan from lighting: SLAP HIM FOR CARING ABOUT HER. right, that makes sense. Snow is a bit too airheaded, but that's his nature - you don't slap someone for that, just because you feel differently. he's ready to act immediately since it's just the only thing he can do.
But to be honest, the only really good written character is Vanille - she is the only really refreshing one.


Lightning slaps him because he was gonna out of his way to save the entire world and yet he couldn't even save the woman he love. She didn't slap him because he cared, she slap him because he was being stupid and unrealistic. (well not really but at that point of the game that was pretty much true).

Vanille eh. I think Fang, Snow, and Lightning were better written.
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Versus XIII is coming in 2014, BO2 will be awesome, and PS4/Xbox 720 is coming in Dec. 2013. Lightning Return will be super awesome.
#23theofficefan99(Topic Creator)Posted 12/1/2012 8:38:03 PM
Vanille is a very well-written character. It's just that her mannerisms in general undermine the quality of her character.
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"Dyin' is easy. It's the livin' that's hard..." Grim Reaper, Maximo vs. The Army of Zin
#24zUkUuPosted 12/1/2012 9:38:42 PM
theofficefan99 posted...
That doesn't make her a badly written character. Not liking a character does not mean that they are badly written. Lightning and Snow have clashing personalities, and it's not a surprise that Snow was pissing her off so much to the point where she had the urge to punch him twice.

Sazh, Lightning and Fang are well-written as well, IMO.

Her personality is unlikable, but she's still a badly written character. Not only does she act inconsistently, but she's also very monotone, shallow and cliché - well just badly written. There are tons of "strong tough independent older sister" characters that are way deeper and have a better character development. if you get the feeling that someone acts against his own "character" then it's bad writing. it just seems so often that she forcefully acts like she does even if it doesn't make any sense or the situation calls for it.
Other characters can be boring and cliché too (Sazh, Snow, Hope) because their stereotype has been overused and could be seen in so many other media, but that doesn't make them baldly written - just not interesting. They are still enjoyable tho (with the exception of Hope - god, he was annoying).

Vanille is the only one that is not a stereotype, and I think her mannerism only acts towards that. You wouldn't think that she could behave like that and has such a deep personality. I didn't like her character in the beginning, but that evolved a strong liking and interest the more you got to know about her. Fang is somewhat legit, too (I couldn't stand her english VA tho).

In the past few years I've been so tremendously bored by stereotype characters (in particular in jrpgs), it's always the same mindset, always the same problems... in many cases even the same age / look. Blandness everywhere. Just take a look at animes - you could almost replace most characters with one another and it would fit perfectly, so repetitive they have become. Stories too. Oh, I'm a member of a small nation stuck in the middle of a two to three nation war and in the progress of the story save the whole of the world/universe? *yawn* There are exceptions of course. It's just, seeing something out of the norm, something refreshing adds so much more to a game / anime / movie - it's instantly more appealing.

I sure hope that Versus will be not too stereotype, it's not that that couldn't yield a good and interesting game, it's just that it could be even better if it isn't.

God I love NieR for making so much right.
#25theofficefan99(Topic Creator)Posted 12/1/2012 11:46:51 PM(edited)
zUkUu posted...
theofficefan99 posted...
That doesn't make her a badly written character. Not liking a character does not mean that they are badly written. Lightning and Snow have clashing personalities, and it's not a surprise that Snow was pissing her off so much to the point where she had the urge to punch him twice.

Sazh, Lightning and Fang are well-written as well, IMO.

Her personality is unlikable, but she's still a badly written character. Not only does she act inconsistently, but she's also very monotone, shallow and cliché - well just badly written. There are tons of "strong tough independent older sister" characters that are way deeper and have a better character development. if you get the feeling that someone acts against his own "character" then it's bad writing. it just seems so often that she forcefully acts like she does even if it doesn't make any sense or the situation calls for it.
Other characters can be boring and cliché too (Sazh, Snow, Hope) because their stereotype has been overused and could be seen in so many other media, but that doesn't make them baldly written - just not interesting. They are still enjoyable tho (with the exception of Hope - god, he was annoying).

Vanille is the only one that is not a stereotype, and I think her mannerism only acts towards that. You wouldn't think that she could behave like that and has such a deep personality. I didn't like her character in the beginning, but that evolved a strong liking and interest the more you got to know about her. Fang is somewhat legit, too (I couldn't stand her english VA tho).

In the past few years I've been so tremendously bored by stereotype characters (in particular in jrpgs), it's always the same mindset, always the same problems... in many cases even the same age / look. Blandness everywhere. Just take a look at animes - you could almost replace most characters with one another and it would fit perfectly, so repetitive they have become. Stories too. Oh, I'm a member of a small nation stuck in the middle of a two to three nation war and in the progress of the story save the whole of the world/universe? *yawn* There are exceptions of course. It's just, seeing something out of the norm, something refreshing adds so much more to a game / anime / movie - it's instantly more appealing.

I sure hope that Versus will be not too stereotype, it's not that that couldn't yield a good and interesting game, it's just that it could be even better if it isn't.

God I love NieR for making so much right.


Inconsistent is a sign of being badly written? Since when? And when is she even inconsistent? And how does apparently monotone voice-acting= bad writing?

And how is she shallow?

And how is Sazh stereotypical? His type is rarely ever seen in a JRPG and he's a very refreshing character.

I am aware that FFXIII does not have the deepest cast of characters, but that does not mean that they are badly written. Well, Snow and Hope definitely are, but the rest aren't.

And, by the way, Fang's English voice is amazing.
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"Dyin' is easy. It's the livin' that's hard..." Grim Reaper, Maximo vs. The Army of Zin
#26zUkUuPosted 12/2/2012 12:20:23 AM(edited)
theofficefan99 posted...
Inconsistent is a sign of being badly written? Since when? And when is she even inconsistent? And how does apparently monotone voice-acting= bad writing?

And how is she shallow?

And how is Sazh stereotypical? His type is rarely ever seen in a JRPG and he's a very refreshing character.

I am aware that FFXIII does not have the deepest cast of characters, but that does not mean that they are badly written. Well, Snow and Hope definitely are, but the rest aren't.

And, by the way, Fang's English voice is amazing.


Inconsistent in her behavior - which is clearly not part of her "character". She acts randomly and out of place sometimes. And where did I even mentioned her voice acting? Her personality is a straight line (monotone), she has no development at all, just through and through foreseeable and boring - forceful at that - and that forcefully feels unnaturally, hence badly written. She seems like a one dimensional character.

Shallow is explained above as well - she has no depth at all. She reminds me a lot of Asbel from Tales of Graces - he is just as bland and shallow. One dimensional throughout the entire game, but at least he acts true to his character the entire time. (even tho he is soooooo annoying and boring).

Oh, so you've never seen an overly funny black guy? right...
I didn't said in jrpgs. :)

I agree with your statement. Don't think that "stereotype" means necessarily bad. A well implemented stereotype is often very fitting and doesn't hurt the experience at all. On the other hand, having something new and fresh, is just more interesting - but that's just a bonus. If it's too forced or badly implemented it hurts more then it benefits.

The cast is at least diverse and not overly on a forced rail (with the exception of Lightning). I really liked Snow (even the he is a bit too naive for my taste), Sazh and in particular Vanille. Fang was okay (she is like Lightning should have been), Hope is also well written, but I just hate whiny brats.

Well that is personal taste, I just couldn't befriend her VA. The accent sounded weird sometimes and her undertone reminded me a lot of the german VA for Eva Mendes (and I hate that voice). Her japanese VA is just tremendously better (that goes for almost all characters, tho).

And I hate Square for not leaving the damn jap track on the frigging blu ray >_>. I hope next time I've the patience to wait till the chinese/asian edition gets released and is shipped. It features jap voices with english text.
#27IshramTheWrathPosted 12/2/2012 4:18:32 AM
zUkUu posted...


and I honestly don't know how anyone can be a lightning fan. she's such a douche and a cliché tough gurl, if it weren't for crybaby hope, she would be one of the most hated FF characters for me. seriously, she slaps people for NO reason. god I hate her.


For that reason, putting her name in the title is like smearing herpes and polio on LR, I simply will not touch it.
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Toriyama Motomu is the Uwe Boll of video games.
#28Stella_FleuretPosted 12/4/2012 6:07:21 PM
Well, perhaps some little info. January 2009, was it? I remember new scans with info were released. And there was info for FFXIII, too.
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Official Stella Nox Fleuret of Gamefaqs.
"As you sow, so shall you reap."