LoL at SE sales expectations.

#11IshramTheWrathPosted 4/2/2013 7:01:44 PM
Lelouch71 posted...
CokaineCowboy77 posted...
Why do companies become so centred around money to the point where they don't even care about their fans?


It's clear you never went to business school or at least learn a few things about it. The sole purpose of a business is to maximize shareholders wealth. Businesses are in it for the money. They aren't a charity group that exist to appease people like CokaineCowboy. Money drives everything. Without money they can't make new products.


I suppose the obvious response to this is, that if a company wants to make money, that company HAS to appeal to customers in both product AND practices.
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Toriyama Motomu is the Uwe Boll of video games.
#12zombie_basher13Posted 4/2/2013 7:27:58 PM
The_Lost_Sabre posted...
FuzWuz_v2 posted...
they don't have to cater to your interests

At the same time, straying too far from what made the company so popular isn't going to encourage people to buy their product.

Business isn't just about making profit; it's also about maintaining profits. Which, of course, links back to the people buying your products. Sure, it's nice to draw in new potential customers but it's also just as important to maintain customer relations of previous customers.


THIS THIS THIS DAMMIT.
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Look alive, you fools.
#13RasukouPosted 4/2/2013 8:32:06 PM
Keep in mind that, as a company from Japan, Square Enix (and perhaps other Japanese companies) may behave and think differently from "Westerners." Business models remain more or less the same across countries, but cultural differences can influence procedure (such as churning out more Lightning-related games. Why? Perhaps to "perfect" FFXIII, but Japanese people also have a tendency to take an action to the extreme, anyway, for better or worse, and sometimes they don't know when to stop. Hence the existence of 3 FFXIII games...).
#14Lelouch71Posted 4/2/2013 8:55:38 PM(edited)
CokaineCowboy77 posted...
Without fans, they don't have money.

I knew I was going to get this reply: "HURR DURR ThEY DUN CARE ABOUT YOo THEy WANT MkNEy!!!11"

And we all know now that that mindset hasn't done them any good.


Without money fans won't get any games. It goes full circle. Money drives everything. SE needs money to make games. Fans need money to buy those games. The profit they make from those fans' contribution helps fund new products.

IshramTheWrath posted...
I suppose the obvious response to this is, that if a company wants to make money, that company HAS to appeal to customers in both product AND practices.


Yes but a company shouldn't waste their time trying to pander to everyone which is impossible. Without customers a company is screwed. However, if a company tries to be everyone's best buddy then they screw themselves over too. People can whine on the internet all they want but that doesn't show the company what they are doing wrong. This is where money comes into play. If a game under-perform it forces game developers to look at where they went wrong. The only way to do that is to not vote with your wallet. Many organizations want people money and they will whatever they had to do it because they need money to stay afloat.
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#15mrklarrydPosted 4/3/2013 12:11:23 AM(edited)
Asd202 posted...
Credits go to road from neogaf :http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=533286
Tomb Raider: 5 to 6 million
Hitman: Absolution: 4.5 to 5 million
Sleeping Dogs: 2 to 2.5 million
Real shipped numbers are Tomb Raider's 3.4M, Hitman's 3.6M, and Sleeping Dogs' 1.75M. Wonder what Versus sales expectations are , it's probably FF 13 shipped number or something close...


Wow. This is a big problem.

Let me preface this by saying 3.6M for Hitman, which was a semi-abandoned franchise last seen as a cult PC game (blood money...it's awesome if any of you aren't familiar with it) is an unreasonable sales expectation. That it actually sold that many physical copies to sales outlets is nothing short of astounding.

That their analysts predicted a game like that would sell 5 million is nothing short of idiotic. Halo 4, which has far greater brand recognition and much more marketing money behind it, only sold about 10% more than the sales expectation on Hitman.

What this tells me is SquareEnix's strategic planning people are telling the shareholders what they want to hear instead of what's what and passing responsibility for "failure" to meet (their crazy) sales targets on to the development teams and marketing/PR.

Because stock prices are influenced negatively by these (obviously) erroneous projections, this has the impact of costing people who did nothing wrong their jobs.

And all these franchises are like this. Sleeping Dogs is an unknown IP. Tomb Raider has been on life support for years. 2.5 million and 6 million? Tomb Raider outselling God of War by 30%? Sleeping Dogs matching Deus Ex? The people who set these projections are out to lunch.

These sales expectations are batcrap crazy and if anyone should pay for this error, it should be the analysts who made them, not the people who failed to meet them.

With realistic projections, instead of these nutso ones, Square Enix should be ecstatic at how many units they moved for each and every one of these products.
#16grand_kaizerPosted 4/3/2013 1:07:00 AM
SE's ego is enormous, and those sales projections prove it. They were expecting these games to sell like hotcakes just because SE's name is on them and they think they're god's gift to gaming.

You're right, as a company they are all about making money, but they're also working in a field of interactive media that gets more and more artistic as the years go by. It's not something simple like making soap where as long as you make soap that does what soap should do people don't give two craps that your CEO eats children.

Videogames are dynamic and taste on them varies. The fans have opinions, the majority have desires, and the directors have visions for what they want to see. In most industries these two things either don't have to line up or do by default. In gaming it is not so. What the developers want to do with their game and what the fans want to experience are two separate things, and a middle ground must be found or both parties lose.

The pressure is on the companies, not the fans. There is no great need for a fan to buy a game, and speaking as a fan of SE whose opinion of them has dropped significantly over the years, I personally don't buy many games with SE's logo on it anymore, because I no longer find their design philosophies and opinions align with my own. Fine, maybe that's a case of me being in the minority of fans, maybe it's a case of me being in the majority of them, but the larger point is that Square needs to connect with the fans in order to be successful.

And that's what "Business school, so I'm better than your single-digit IQ, lol" people can go ahead and accept: when it comes to games, companies are in a partnership whether they like it or not. They have to dance with the fans, not just walk away from the show altogether. They can't make a game and say the fans loved it if opinion is squarely divided. They can't try and revive an old series and say it'll succeed entirely on the strength of their name. They need to listen to their fans and make sure that what they're doing is at least somewhat in line with what the fans are seeing.

Now I agree, the FF fanbase is a sea of roiling madness no matter which side of the spectrum you sit on. No matter what SE does, there will be people who are angry. It's not their job to please everyone. That's just not possible. What they need to do to survive is to make sure that the angry ones are the minority, and the satisfied gamers are the majority, and that can't happen when they're ignoring the writing on the wall, letting their egos blind them, and calling it a success when the fanbase is divided down the middle on whether they're right or wrong.

Maybe wishing for them to go bankrupt is harsh. Maybe it's too harsh. But maybe it would also serve as a shining example that nobody in this industry can ignore their fans and survive. Even the mightiest behemoths of gaming can be felled by their simple unwillingness to dance that dance. Sadly, that might mean dumbing a product down, or taking things in a direction away from what other people want, but hey, they want to make money, right? Well nothing makes more money than listening to the people who pay your wages and doing what they want.
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"I am the Truest Repairman!"
#17PillsberyDoeManPosted 4/3/2013 1:31:49 AM
grand_kaizer posted...
Well nothing makes more money than listening to the people who pay your wages and doing what they want.


too bad the voices behind v13 aren't loud enough for them to hear.
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impatiently waiting on versus xiii...
EDIT: not so much anymore... (4/28/11)
#18Sir_Tom_JonesPosted 4/3/2013 4:28:06 AM(edited)
Even at my college the higher ups know SE isnt doing a great job.

- Unhappy costumers
- Less income
- Less for the shareholders
- Less for the company to invest
- Again, less income

if SE only wants to make money without catering to their buyers, they shoudve been an investment company or a bank and leave the video gaming Industry. Its not as if they're good at it right now. Yeah, only good in graphics. I dont need to see every hairlock and beauty marks inspired by Toriyama's mole.
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#19ShuyinOnTheWayPosted 4/3/2013 6:26:34 AM
Their prediction for Versus XIII better not be at 10M.
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#20SoulMikeYPosted 4/3/2013 6:42:00 AM
I like that people pull the "business degree" thing out. Everyone has a business degree, it's what you do when you don't know what to do, or you're an accountant.

Anyway, I don't know who said it, but the "they can't listen to every customer" thing is dumb. You know all of their fans have 3 or 4 common interests. Jesus squeezus, they have to make 4 games people like? Oh no, that's horrible to actually make money with minimal listening and effort.