LoL at SE sales expectations.

#21bluexskyxnoisePosted 4/3/2013 7:20:35 AM
At the end of the day they need to make profit but to make said profit they need to cater to their core fan base, but this doesn't work since the core fan base is heavily divided as to which games are good and which aren't. You get the "hardcore" fans especially regarding the FF series who believe they are equivocally correct and if someone disagrees with them they are fan boys and haters. At the end of the day there has to be a middle ground where they can produce titles that cater to the majority of the fan base, but at the same time that alienates the vocal minority who bash anything new and when the games don't live up to their standards of what the game should be. They should do some research on what consumers agree on and then try from there, it will be a start. Maybe not make the games AAA titles and that way they can save of costs and maximise profits. Just my two cents, sorry for the wall of text.
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#22GalluszPosted 4/3/2013 7:25:20 AM
I remember when enix was square soft.


Quality games with a fair profit.

Not anymore.
#23SteelCurtain17Posted 4/3/2013 10:17:51 AM
My god whoever convinced SE those were realistic numbers must lack any kind of brain......also I understand where some posters are coming from about it being a business but when you constantly piss off the fans that made you a successful business then you have issues.
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#24westontickleePosted 4/3/2013 11:20:59 AM
Lelouch71 posted...
CokaineCowboy77 posted...
Why do companies become so centred around money to the point where they don't even care about their fans?


It's clear you never went to business school or at least learn a few things about it. The sole purpose of a business is to maximize shareholders wealth. Businesses are in it for the money. They aren't a charity group that exist to appease people like CokaineCowboy. Money drives everything. Without money they can't make new products.


*claps*
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#25TeethWillRollPosted 4/3/2013 6:52:11 PM(edited)
Lelouch71 posted...
Yes but a company shouldn't waste their time trying to pander to everyone which is impossible. Without customers a company is screwed. However, if a company tries to be everyone's best buddy then they screw themselves over too. People can whine on the internet all they want but that doesn't show the company what they are doing wrong. This is where money comes into play. If a game under-perform it forces game developers to look at where they went wrong. The only way to do that is to not vote with your wallet. Many organizations want people money and they will whatever they had to do it because they need money to stay afloat.

But people have already been voting with their wallet by not buying SE developed games because of some sort of dissatisfaction. They have voiced their complaints both vocally and monetarily. There is a consistent trend of what the complaints with SE are, yet what does SE do? Continue to turn a blind eye.

The FF14 disaster is really the only complaint being fixed for good reason but at the cost of pretty much halting most HD projects. And that's not even the saddest part about this whole mess: they could've avoided most of the backlash and extreme humiliation had they wait for it listened to the fans/beta testers. Why couldn't they delay the game after the horrendous beta reports? Delaying would still cost money, yes, but they at least wouldn't have had their reputation shattered the way it did nor would we be in this situation where that game pretty much prevents the other complaints consumers have from being addressed.

This really isn't a case of "whiny minority" anymore, it's a whole lot more large-scale. It's even worse when the complaints are accumulated. For once we actually have proof of the lament as it's reflected in their sales and their ever plummeting reputation:

- The Last Remnant never saw a release on the console where the majority of that genre's userbase is located AKA where sales would matter the most. And IIRC, people are still lamenting about it (wasn't this game in one of Famitsu's most wanted titles, or something to that effect?). Star Ocean also suffered accordingly because of the 360 timed exclusive but at least that one eventually got a PS3 release.

- The dropoff from 13 to 13-2 was very telling, yet another game to a saga nobody (read: majority) asked for is in the works. Regardless of whether or not one actually enjoyed FF13, one cannot deny the controversy (from critics to consumers alike) it has created. To further add salt to the wound the information on a game that people do want (read: Versus) is not being delivered! This goes well beyond just Gamefaqs: game news sites have been wondering every year about the lack of it for the past how many E3s, game reporters almost always ask what the status is when they have the chance, and hell, notice how whenever anything FF13 related there will always, always be that inevitable "okay but where is versus?"

- The KH franchise has been diluted on too many handhelds which 1) wasn't where they developed their user base and 2) aren't that big in the west. As a result sales have been steadily declining. And the one game people are asking for, KH3, is no where to be seen.

- Already mentioned but for the sake of reiteration, that whole FF14 catastrophe.

Can you really sit here and say that the JP SE division is operating on any sort of exemplary standard? Do you honestly think that this is merely all just another case of whiny, demanding fanboys making noise? This dissent and divide amongst the fans has reached a whole new peak, and it is the direct result of the way SE has been handling themselves this gen.
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oh ok.
#26LuminaXLightPosted 4/3/2013 7:18:43 PM
TeethWillRoll posted...
Lelouch71 posted...
Yes but a company shouldn't waste their time trying to pander to everyone which is impossible. Without customers a company is screwed. However, if a company tries to be everyone's best buddy then they screw themselves over too. People can whine on the internet all they want but that doesn't show the company what they are doing wrong. This is where money comes into play. If a game under-perform it forces game developers to look at where they went wrong. The only way to do that is to not vote with your wallet. Many organizations want people money and they will whatever they had to do it because they need money to stay afloat.

But people have already been voting with their wallet by not buying SE developed games because of some sort of dissatisfaction. They have voiced their complaints both vocally and monetarily. There is a consistent trend of what the complaints with SE are, yet what does SE do? Continue to turn a blind eye.

The FF14 disaster is really the only complaint being fixed for good reason but at the cost of pretty much halting most HD projects. And that's not even the saddest part about this whole mess: they could've avoided most of the backlash and extreme humiliation had they wait for it listened to the fans/beta testers. Why couldn't they delay the game after the horrendous beta reports? Delaying would still cost money, yes, but they at least wouldn't have had their reputation shattered the way it did nor would we be in this situation where that game pretty much prevents the other complaints consumers have from being addressed.

This really isn't a case of "whiny minority" anymore, it's a whole lot more large-scale. It's even worse when the complaints are accumulated. For once we actually have proof of the lament as it's reflected in their sales and their ever plummeting reputation:

- The Last Remnant never saw a release on the console where the majority of that genre's userbase is located AKA where sales would matter the most. And IIRC, people are still lamenting about it (wasn't this game in one of Famitsu's most wanted titles, or something to that effect?). Star Ocean also suffered accordingly because of the 360 timed exclusive but at least that one eventually got a PS3 release.

- The dropoff from 13 to 13-2 was very telling, yet another game to a saga nobody (read: majority) asked for is in the works. Regardless of whether or not one actually enjoyed FF13, one cannot deny the controversy (from critics to consumers alike) it has created. To further add salt to the wound the information on a game that people do want (read: Versus) is not being delivered! This goes well beyond just Gamefaqs: game news sites have been wondering every year about the lack of it for the past how many E3s, game reporters almost always ask what the status is when they have the chance, and hell, notice how whenever anything FF13 related there will always, always be that inevitable "okay but where is versus?"

- The KH franchise has been diluted on too many handhelds which 1) wasn't where they developed their user base and 2) aren't that big in the west. As a result sales have been steadily declining. And the one game people are asking for, KH3, is no where to be seen.

- Already mentioned but for the sake of reiteration, that whole FF14 catastrophe.

Can you really sit here and say that the JP SE division is operating on any sort of exemplary standard? Do you honestly think that this is merely all just another case of whiny, demanding fanboys making noise? This dissent and divide amongst the fans has reached a whole new peak, and it is the direct result of the way SE has been handling themselves this gen.


No
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#27RasukouPosted 4/3/2013 7:44:12 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#28RasukouPosted 4/3/2013 7:50:03 PM
@TeethWillRoll

What we're witnessing is a cultural clash and a part of Japan's dark side: once a project is approved, it will be delivered regardless of whether or not people want it. This phenomenon hasn't just happened with Square Enix and video games - it's happened with Japan's government and infrastructure, too (i.e. constant construction and development not necessarily for improving infrastructure but more for using up government budgets so there's no leftover money. This is so that departments won't lose government funding for the following fiscal year. Returned or unused money = suspicious).

I obviously don't know the internal affairs of the FFXIV fiasco, but I take a guess that FFXIV [1.0] was set to release by a certain date, so the production team had to meet that deadline regardless of the final state of the product. FFXIV 1.0 wasn't ready to be shipped -- as you've said, the beta was horribly buggy, and S-E definitely should've delayed the project and fixed the errors -- but the company shipped, anyway. As for delays, well . . . remember: projects, once approved, will be delivered unless something tremendously wrong occurs, in which case they'll be "delayed" indefinitely. I suppose that's also the good news for Versus because, by this logic, it will eventually ship (excluding the part about the indefinite delay).

Your frustration (and that of other Square Enix supporters) is understandable--I'm mad and sad writing about this poor handling of projects on S-E's part. Mad because of Square Enix's practices in recent years and sad because I know Square Enix could've been in a much better state than it's in now. However, this whole "turning the blind eye" matter is not because Square Enix is stupid and intentionally inconsiderate--though these could be parts of the problem--but simply because this is how Japan works, for better or worse. Oh, and Square Enix has gotten complacent, if you want my two cents.

Source: Alex Kerr's Dogs and Demons
#29The_Lost_SabrePosted 4/3/2013 7:58:04 PM
Shouldn't SE be least aware of the possible effect of how the clearly unfinished FFXIV would bring to the masses? Sure, it seems like they know the reservation of testers but they went ahead and release the game anyways. That's just plain ignorance no matter how you slice it and that will kill any business in the long run.

I know it's a cultural thing but with a product that huge, couldn't they make an exception and make sure it is well and truly finished? I mean, it's an MMORPG; they get momentum from their first impression, moreso than any other genre!
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#30dkgerbil2Posted 4/3/2013 8:21:21 PM
Well those sales numbers were simply unreasonable and Square should have understood that.

On another note, most of you guys have an understanding of economics akin to a high school senior's. Quite sad, but it'd be my fault for expecting any more. The big piece you're missing is market trends and how they affect the situation (Square's and in general). I'll go now, though, because I'm sure someone's offended.
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