i beat Skyrim recently.

#11Cyber_Boy94Posted 4/23/2013 7:23:24 AM
VanilleHopen posted...
Kouuta-Kun posted...
Big, and the same thing over.


exactly.. this is where skyrim fall's flat.. Who cares if the world is realistic.. I already have a realistic world, I live in it..

The fact is skyrim bored me to DEATH... I couldn't get passed the first couple of sidequests.. The npcs are boring the world is boring the caves are the same thing over and over with the same fricking stupid animal puzzles...

I never felt like I was progressing or advancing in the story... skyrim is a terrible game that strived for quantity (soooo many things you can do) over quality (great motivation and reasons to do them).. and sadly a lot of people bit...


It's kinda scary... but I agree with you, that was my problem with the game...
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#12Kouuta-KunPosted 4/23/2013 7:47:31 AM
VanilleHopen posted...
Kouuta-Kun posted...
Big, and the same thing over.


exactly.. this is where skyrim fall's flat.. Who cares if the world is realistic.. I already have a realistic world, I live in it..

The fact is skyrim bored me to DEATH... I couldn't get passed the first couple of sidequests.. The npcs are boring the world is boring the caves are the same thing over and over with the same fricking stupid animal puzzles...

I never felt like I was progressing or advancing in the story... skyrim is a terrible game that strived for quantity (soooo many things you can do) over quality (great motivation and reasons to do them).. and sadly a lot of people bit...


Agreed. But, I confess..its fun in small doses.
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#13iambashoPosted 4/23/2013 8:19:30 AM
PillsberyDoeMan posted...
to start off, i couldn't disagree more with this. skyrim has the most believable world i've ever explored in any game. the amount of detail and variety in the environment that's left for the player to discover is astonishing compared to other games. it's a big part of why i kept playing to its' end and exploring every inch of the map. other games of this magnitude rely on dungeon crawler-like maps. lots of repetition and boring surroundings and while i do agree that fallout 3 is guilty of this, skyrim does a MUCH better job at making its' world believable.

I'd like to stop you here and remind you of something... this "variety" you speak of? It consisted of two biomes, the occasional swampy area, and four dungeon types, repeated OVER and OVER and OVER for hours on end with NO creativity whatsoever.
you can't walk for 5 minutes in one direction without bumping into something new to explore in skyrim. that's one of the reasons as to why it was so fun to make discoveries.

Really? Because I tried to play the game twice, and both times I gave up on it because there was nothing new whatsoever in the game after about 5 minutes past the tutorial cave.
yea, i think those are the two main aspects of skyrim that stood out for me.
this isn't about jrpg's being their own thing and wrpg's being their own thing. i know v13 wants to redefine ff and probably jrpg's in general, but it'd be nice to see it being influenced by the better side of western games. player control during in-game cutscenes and more action is a nice start, but it doesn't have to stop there. this game has been with me since 06' and i want nothing but the best for it.

I don't disagree here, JRPGs could benefit from certain WRPG aspects. However, the whole "open world" thing is most definitely not one of them. When you're allowed to do whatever you want from the start, it cheapens the effect of the story to the point where it becomes insignificant, even forgettable. As an example, beyond killing an evil dragon at the end I don't remember a single thing about Skyrim's main storyline, and I've beaten it twice in the last year and a half.
Deeper sidequests could most definitely use a return, but stuff like the Dark Brotherhood? That's the exact same as the mob hunts you complained about, just easier.
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#14PillsberyDoeMan(Topic Creator)Posted 4/23/2013 1:43:55 PM
(1)
by no means do i think skyrim is a perfect game. i had plenty of issues with it when it came to combat, loading, recurring voice actors, glitches, the leveling system, etc etc, but for it's sheer size, it accomplishes a lot more than most games could ever dream of.

let me explain what i meant by saying, "the world is full of detail and variety". there's lots to explore in skyrim. when i said "you can't walk 5 minutes in one direction without discovering something new", i meant it. the compass thingy on the top of the screen has location markers that pop up whenever you are within distance of something. whether it be another cave, bandit hideout, fort, farm, town, whatever.
and no... of course each location isn't going to "completely" different from the rest. it's a game for pete's sake! the developers create the assets for the world and re-use them over and over again. that's expected in a game of this size. what i applaud bethesda for doing is trying to give each location it's own feel and i believe they succeed in doing so.

lets use fort 1 and fort 2 as an example. both have the exact same graphical templates used throughout. same rocky walls outside and inside, same set of tables and food lying over the place, yada yada yada. assuming neither of them lead to something greater at the end, they're just going to be simple bandit raid "dungeons", ya? ok, i can deal with that, but what i can't get over is that bethesda still went out of their way to make 1 and 2 "feel" different. the overall layout/pathways will obviously be different, but one fort can have 3 floors to explore, while the other can have a prison basement and several other buildings on the fort grounds to enter. and then, if you sneak up on some bandits in the territory, they might have some dialogue specific to their leader or maybe a random quest.
^this is assuming that you never picked up a quest in town or from a random npc for fort 1 or 2. otherwise, when you get to fort 1 or 2, there's actually a goal set for you. "save so-and-so's husband/wife", "rescue the little girl", "recover my family's heirloom", "kill the bandit leader". not the most intriguing sq's i admit, but at least it's something.
THEN, you have fort 3. everything looks the same on the outside, but once you enter, there's something brand new smack dab in front of you. a giant statue used to worship a god? a torture room with dead werewolves lying about? maybe vampires? how bout a massive library filled with books on skyrim's history? ya see, it's that type of "variety" i was talking about and appreciate.

compare that with games like kingdoms of amalur (a game i also enjoyed). most of the dungeons are just that. simple dungeons with a chest at the end. barely any though put into it. skyrim puts those games to shame.
not only does it do "dungeons" better, but the overworld is a spectacle within itself. there's PLENTY of variety there. there are plains, tundra, snowy shores, mountains, forests, geyser landscapes.... that's what skyrim REPRESENTS in tamriel. it can't have everything. those are for the other nations/countries.
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i also don't see what the problem is with recurring bandit enemies and the like. that's what their world is filled of. i haven't played any of the other elder scrolls games, but i'm assuming that since the majority of skyrim's populace is represented by nords (humans), then cyrodil, black marsh, morrowind and all those other countries within tamriel would have their own recurring races and enemies as well. what more do you honestly want? they might take up the majority of the game, but that doesn't mean there's tons more enemies and races to see >_>. they're just not as frequent.->
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EDIT: not so much anymore... (4/28/11)
#15PillsberyDoeMan(Topic Creator)Posted 4/23/2013 1:44:16 PM
(2)
another thing i'd like to point out is that skyrim is driven by combat and its' world. not puzzles or using new tools to solve your way out of a jam. this isn't zelda. it's what bethesda had in mind when developing this game and i learned to accept that early on. it did not bother me to solve a couple easy, half-assed puzzles every now and then.
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and as for the MAIN storylines, yes they're easy to follow if that's all you do. from what i've heard, the game can be completed in as little as 5 hours. do it that way and you're sure not to lose track of the story or complain about it drifting off.
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impatiently waiting on versus xiii...
EDIT: not so much anymore... (4/28/11)
#16phillymo887Posted 4/23/2013 8:32:04 PM
PillsberyDoeMan posted...
(2)
another thing i'd like to point out is that skyrim is driven by combat and its' world. not puzzles or using new tools to solve your way out of a jam. this isn't zelda. it's what bethesda had in mind when developing this game and i learned to accept that early on. it did not bother me to solve a couple easy, half-assed puzzles every now and then.
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and as for the MAIN storylines, yes they're easy to follow if that's all you do. from what i've heard, the game can be completed in as little as 5 hours. do it that way and you're sure not to lose track of the story or complain about it drifting off.


whether you take 5 hours or 500 hours to complete it, the story will never be meaningful or worth remembering. i think that's the point the other guy was making. a game like FF7 (just and example plenty can relate to) wasn't as huge as Skyrim but i sure as hell won't ever forget its characters or its story. there was plenty to do and see without it being a huge and open world game. size and quantity isn't everything.

i don't have a problem with square going after the western market and learning from western rpgs but i don't want them to forget everything they are good at, or were good at, for the sake of just making a bigger world. there are some things japan is better at when it comes to rpgs. also i though dragons dogma was amazing. way more interesting than skyrim in my opinion. combat was 100x better. it wasn't as big of a world but it was big enough.

this is all just my own opinion of course
#171TruthPosted 4/23/2013 8:37:27 PM
Fantastic post, TC. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I only played Skyrim for 20 hours but that was enough for me to see it was a masterpiece of an open world RPG.

Anybody that thinks that FF Versus XIII will top it is just kidding themselves. FF Versus XIII won't even surpass FFXII in world scale, yet alone Skyrim. LOL!
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Final Fantasy XII is a masterpiece in both game design and story.
#18theofficefan99Posted 4/23/2013 10:10:23 PM
1Truth posted...
Fantastic post, TC. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I only played Skyrim for 20 hours but that was enough for me to see it was a masterpiece of an open world RPG.

Anybody that thinks that FF Versus XIII will top it is just kidding themselves. FF Versus XIII won't even surpass FFXII in world scale, yet alone Skyrim. LOL!


XII's world isn't even that big for you to be so proud of the game's size.

And you don't know that. We'll just have to wait and see.
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#19phillymo887Posted 4/24/2013 12:26:49 PM
1Truth posted...
Fantastic post, TC. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I only played Skyrim for 20 hours but that was enough for me to see it was a masterpiece of an open world RPG.

Anybody that thinks that FF Versus XIII will top it is just kidding themselves. FF Versus XIII won't even surpass FFXII in world scale, yet alone Skyrim. LOL!


thats the point, final fantasy games aren't about size. they don't need to make up for lackluster story and re-used content with a huge world. FFXII wasn't even an open world, nor was it huge so why compare it to that anyway? Final fantasies have never been focused only on the size of its world. It seems that the size of Skyrim is the only thing that anybody can bring up in comparison and that makes it seem like its all skyrim has going for it. Thats not enough for me.
#20zombie_basher13Posted 4/24/2013 9:26:05 PM
Something I wanna point out to everyone:

Nomura has already said Versus won't be open world, but it will be large. He compared it to the world maps of previous FFs in HD, but with traversal like FF XII. So big, but not go-anywhere-do-anything Bethesda does in their games. For example, there was a screenshot of Noctis on a road looking over a plain area, with mountains in the distance, and there was a quote or something that you can't explore the mountains/climb up them, the way you can in Skyrim Oblivion, etc.

I think if having an open world in Versus akin Skyrim is part of people's inflated expectations for this game, then yeah they'll definitely be disappointed.
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