FFXV's battle system. Is there enough depth for the action-based combat?

#1TehAssasinPosted 7/2/2013 2:52:29 AM
Let's discuss.

Here's the battle analysis thread by Exentryk which you all might have already seen: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=585421

From my previous post...



- A seamless switch-able player to control in battle

- Situational attack timing to form a team-based attack

- Noctis's warping

- Magic spells

- Ability to plant swords/lances onto enemies for unknown purposes (may be revealed in future).

- Summons

- Link forms (which could potentially be a whole set of abilities unique to characters)

- Unrevealed 'limit break' system

- Combo based on the multitudes of weapons usable by Noctis

- Climbing mechanism, aim for the weak spots on the larger sized enemies.

- Stealth kill

- Third Person Shooting for Prompto, aim for weaknesses and explosives.

- Battle via tanks/ Magitek Armors

- Other yet to revealed battle skills, like Noctis being able to 'scan' enemies using his eyes that foresee deaths,etc.

- Difficulty settings which can provide challenges for hardcore gamers

- Controllable 'guest' members which might have their own unique sets of skills/abilities

- Some platforming elements in battle (like the one against Leviathan in trailer)



Nomura wants the player to feel the speed while playing this game, but also reassured players that it wouldn't be too complicated or cumbersome to learn since the difficulty slope is reasonable and intuitive at the start of game.

Do you think these are enough to keep the game entertaining for at the minimum 40 hours or so? I personally do. The game would have even more depth in terms of battle if weapons can be customized to have specific elemental affinity or custom skills attached to them.

Also, while nothing has been confirmed thus far, I think a Gambit system will also be great to allow us micromanage the A.I. of our party members. Or at the very least, an option which sets the tactical strategy like the Tales and Star Ocean titles.
#2KH2RulzPosted 7/2/2013 3:05:41 AM
Seeing as this game is, at its core, KH with party switching, rideable weapons/vehicles and warping, I can definitely imagine the complexity. I've seen a lot of comments saying how button-mashy KH is, which I do agree with to a certain degree.

However, if you look at Terra from KH2:FM, there is almost no way you can just button-mash and still win, even at level 99 and on Standard Mode. If you look at experienced players' videos (but not ones that have perfected the battle with crazy limitations), you'll see the wide range of skills required to defeat that one boss. Heck, just playing on critical mode makes normal enemies into nightmares that you need to basically use all options to defeat (looking at you Hot Rods).

So assuming the team use all their creative juice from KH2:FM and amplify it up to an eleven in this game, I think we'll have a game that tests both reaction AND strategy.

So yeah, I can already see the potential in this game with so many different avenues of combat. I just hope the team realises what they did so -right- in KH2:FM and apply it to this game (and I definitely hope they include a proper LVL1 run).
#3wolf riderPosted 7/2/2013 3:30:44 AM
My main concern is that in trying to strike a balance between action hack-n-slash and RPG combat, they end up with a mediocre action game with RPG elements.

I want there to be high level hack-n-slash stuff like a just frame warp that doesn't deplete the warp gauge. Or holding a button down to charge a spell, starting a combo, and finishing the combo by releasing the spell.
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#4DragoonGriffithPosted 7/2/2013 3:39:50 AM
That is all fine, but it's execution of those ideas and how well balanced the mechanics will be, which is what's important to see.

All I'm saying is, there might be depth, or there might not and it could just be a illiusion.

We can't say for sure, through only speculation and what someone says.
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"Looks like we now know where all hot chicks in FF XV went."- About Drakengard 3.
#5TehAssasin(Topic Creator)Posted 7/2/2013 3:48:44 AM
KH2Rulz posted...
Seeing as this game is, at its core, KH with party switching, rideable weapons/vehicles and warping, I can definitely imagine the complexity. I've seen a lot of comments saying how button-mashy KH is, which I do agree with to a certain degree.

However, if you look at Terra from KH2:FM, there is almost no way you can just button-mash and still win, even at level 99 and on Standard Mode. If you look at experienced players' videos (but not ones that have perfected the battle with crazy limitations), you'll see the wide range of skills required to defeat that one boss. Heck, just playing on critical mode makes normal enemies into nightmares that you need to basically use all options to defeat (looking at you Hot Rods).

So assuming the team use all their creative juice from KH2:FM and amplify it up to an eleven in this game, I think we'll have a game that tests both reaction AND strategy.

So yeah, I can already see the potential in this game with so many different avenues of combat. I just hope the team realises what they did so -right- in KH2:FM and apply it to this game (and I definitely hope they include a proper LVL1 run).


Yeah, a difficulty level equivalent to Critical mode needs to be in the game. A difficulty which forces player to be smart in using resources and optimizing strategies, weapons/skills to use and reaction time to thrive in.

DragoonGriffith posted...
That is all fine, but it's execution of those ideas and how well balanced the mechanics will be, which is what's important to see.

All I'm saying is, there might be depth, or there might not and it could just be a illiusion.

We can't say for sure, through only speculation and what someone says.


Execution certainly is a big factor. Ambitious, great ideas can fall flat if they're not implemented well. I'm particularly concerned with the Summons. SE is notorious for making them either really overpowered or almost worthless.
#6AndrogyneTechPosted 7/2/2013 3:58:06 AM
KH2Rulz posted...
I've seen a lot of comments saying how button-mashy KH is, which I do agree with to a certain degree.

The problem with that analogy is that it ignores platforming and other elements of the combat in Kingdom Hearts.

Kingdom Hearts combat is quite good. I feel a lot of people making that complaint did so because they prefer turn based strategic combat.

The combat in Kingdom Hearts could be better. But it is ironic to call it button mashing when it has less button mashing than many Final Fantasy games where you can just spam attack and heal to win. At least in Kingdom Hearts you need to be on your toes and have platforming skills to dodge attacks and win battles. Many battles in Kingdom Hearts are quite challenging and not button mashing at all.

I'm sad that such a solid combat system is underrated by so many people when it is honestly challenging, good, and not button mashing at all. In fact it is one of the most progressive battle systems in a Japanese RPG. No random encounters, screen switches, turn based combat, and battling takes reflex and mixes traditional Final Fantasy elements like spells in with attacking and platforming surprisingly well. And the physics is solid and not buggy.

It isn't perfect physics all the time and not %100 flawless or anything. But still pretty darn solid and rarely frustrating. Most of the time what you'll experience is just solid platforming.
#7DragoonGriffithPosted 7/2/2013 4:00:57 AM(edited)
I don't know about KH2, BBS and the others, but KH1's combat is very simplistic and button mashy.

I like the game for its charm, but the combat isn't something like Tales or Ys to me.
It reminds me more of a adrenalin infused Zelda game with lots of jumping to be honest.

It's fun, but not much depth.
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"Looks like we now know where all hot chicks in FF XV went."- About Drakengard 3.
#8KH2RulzPosted 7/2/2013 4:13:17 AM
@AndrogyneTech

I definitely agree with you that KH combat is incredibly solid and does mix action with the turn-based JRPG combat very well.

However, would you agree that KH2 (in vanilla form) was very easy, hence leading to why many people view it as 'button-mashy' ?

I mean, I've been very enlightened after a Critical Mode run of KH2:FM, but many people may think that the easiness of regular KH2 means that the battle system is simple.

It's definitely a complex and strategic battle system but I guess it isn't given the chance to spread its wings until the difficulty ramps up (hence why I view KH2:FM as the pinnacle of KH gameplay and, honestly, one of the best battle systems I've ever played.)
#9AndrogyneTechPosted 7/2/2013 4:23:45 AM
DragoonGriffith posted...
Tales

I wouldn't call Kingdom Hearts very button mashy, but I do think that Tales does essential combat much better than Kingdom Hearts. So does Star Ocean. Though I am especially fond of Tales combat and would rate it far, far more highly than Kingdom Hearts.

Also, as much as I like Tales more than Kingdom Hearts, Kingdom Hearts does have some innovations that Tales doesn't. For instance, platforming. And general physics and interaction with surroundings can be in some ways and cases better than Tales.

I honestly think the perfect action RPG combat would blend the better elements of both Tales and Kingdom Hearts games.

Basically, Tales is more like a fighting game when it comes to combat. And has far more complexity in that area. Kingdom Hearts has nowhere near the combat complexity that Tales has and is nothing like a fighting game. While Kingdom Hearts is more hack n' slash. On the other hand, Kingdom Hearts has platforming, and solid physics to that end as well. Where you can generally interact with your surroundings.

And the platforming isn't separate from the combat in Kingdom Hearts. There is a different kind of depth of combat in Kingdom Hearts where gravity physics and so forth affects combat. Gravity physics isn't nearly as important in combat in Tales games as it is in Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts is like Final Fantasy if you took out all of the turn based combat and replaced it with Super Mario 64.
#10CokaineCowboy77Posted 7/2/2013 4:29:24 AM
Combat in KH and KHII was terrible. KH was the most simplest thing I've ever played, it was literally just stare at the screen masing X and watch some little kid swing a giant key around. Then there's KHII which wasn't much better. Only thing it added was Reaction Commands, which didn't add much depth to the battle-system other than an situational button press.

BbS was okay, although it was more pre-battle preperation that was the good thing about it.

@TC, Yeah, all that sounds pretty good, hopefully there's more features to be revealed in the future. I especially like the addition of vertical battles, don't know why. Sounds fun.
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