Comparison of SWFU1 and SWFU2

#1MrStarkillerPosted 10/1/2012 2:14:37 PM
I rather liked SWFU1 and did many runs (as has SBK at this point). Saramusha and catkiller too (to a lesser extent). I just wasn't impressed with the demo or what I saw in playthroughs. I have the game (digital) now, but haven't gotten around to playing it or doing runs. What thoughts do you lads have?

Old demo thoughts for SWFU2:

"SW:FU2 demo

Infinite energy during fall.

s1
s2/t2/o2
s3a/s3b *the latter is based on a pause before use*/t3/o3
s4/t4/o4 *hold circle or jump to rise*
NOTE: Can't string in a case like s1 --> t2 --> o3
NOTE2: o4 can lead to air grab after landing and use of s1 *?*

(air) s1
(air) s2
(air) s3
(air) S
NOTE: It sends them airborne and can combo into air grab which is lovely.

t/T
(air) t/T

o/O
(air) o/O

Grab 1 (x+s)
Grab 2 (t+o) *can lead to aerial blast and aerial shock*

(air) Grab 1 (x+s)
(air) Grab 2 (t+s)

NOTE: We seem invincible during grabs now. It is my opinion that this will be a HUGE matter.

(Ground) s1 *stab*

X *jump; again for double jump*

L1 *dash* (no sideflips, all dashes)
L1+t - Dashing Shock *costs nothing and travels through obstructions on occassion*
L1+o - Dashing Blast *costs nothing; weaker most likely*

L2 *Block; can move while blocking, but no air block*
(parry) Counter-strike *the source of power*
(parry) Counter-lightning
(parry) Counter-push *doesn't look like it really*
NOTE: These are new.
L2+s *saber throw*
L2+t *mind trick*
L2+o *repulse*

R2 *grip*
(Grip) Impale *square*
(Grip) Lighting Grenade *triangle*
(Grip) Cannonball *circle*
NOTE: Attempting to charge push will cancel Grip.
NOTE2: Impale and Lightning Grenade cost force like Cannonball, but you can ignore your force and infinitely use the same object. Running foes along surfaces won't set off Lightning Grenade *sadly*, but you can saber toss for distance saber kills over and over...

Things feel a bit off so I'd have to do an extensive report on the matter. The AI is as stupid as ever. I'm easily able to abuse cover, let foes kill each other, etc. It's easier to grip the shield away, but not the only way.

NOTE: Controls and targeting honestly felt more responsive last time *so far*
NOTE2: The overkill option seems mostly gone in that we used to be able to juggle corses a bit after death

It's a shame that they don't have Aerial Strike in the demo. That move was THE S***. One large problem is the recovery buffer after the attacking being so long. Another is how iffy the air grabs are about responding.

Mixing and matching of attacks at large seems played down.

Grip abuse is as potent as ever for distance and melee antics. Their melee troops ain't s***. The Jumptroopers are obviously prone to lightning. Grip ruins them too. It's badass to get in their face with air dash and air grab their f****y asses. Especially air grab 2.

Potential for simple sequence breaks and cheap fights exists indeed. Grip no longer stupidly slightly raises things constantly so you don't have to adjust so much when making object stacks.

It seems ground grab 2 and air grab 1 don't work on Jumptroopers. The 'shield/petrify' bot has an AI boundary in fight 2. There are also areas just outside the arena, but those are dangerous. It's easier to stick to the path you start on and let him stay away then infinite saber toss (any object will do) with the object behind him so it travels through him. Easier still to fight him 'right'.

His petrification is a bother. Instant kill in the air and holds you down annoyingly long (in a row anyway) on the ground. Damage per freeze it seems. Or maybe as it goes. Minor HP regeneration offers exist after taking damage."
#2MrStarkiller(Topic Creator)Posted 10/1/2012 2:16:43 PM
"We can catch his petrifcation shots. Even use grip attacks on the mass. Impale just blew it up in the air. It's hard to hit regular foes with it, but easy to target the bot, though it only slows him down even with 2x hits.

NOTE: Saber throw is devestating when it impales. I don't remember saber throw doing that outside grip in the first. Fully charged tosses do it in SWFU2.

Running into petrifed *dead* foes is amusing. I don't see any signs of the 'action camera' for when we blow n*****s away in a big way. Also, it's amusing to grip and electrify/impale then bonk a living person over and over into those red bouncer (shockwave making) things.

You can kill yourself and retry over and over for EXP whoring...Lots of things to break for EXP too.

Just lazily tossing the saber is fine for getting around the shield. Repuse really is overpowered. Push is okay though not effective on the bot.

It takes too long to MAX everything. So I went for lvl2 Mind trick so I could read about lvl3. Yep. You just learn to trick 3 guys at once.

A fast way to beat the bot is pull his shield then full charge and release Saber toss then press X from anywhere to do the mini-game (square is the next press). Easy and quick.

IF you Lightning Grenade the platform and jump on it, the spot you land on makes an explosion effect. Saber toss hits something in the air.

NOTE: Mind trick is amusing enough with them attacking their friends and leaping into bouncers, off cliffs, etc., but the lines you and they exchange make it GOLD. "The Empire LIES." "...Death to the Empire". All sorts of stupid s***. It's great for that alone. Never mind "You are not my enemy" just as I get close enough to murder him.

Force Fury is cute. Super versions of most things. Mind trick controls walkers and ALL FOES. Our attack chain is only s,s,s,s though. Grip is of course a force Crush for walkers. Grip can get somethign like five guys and multi-Lightning Grenade it seems. Grab 1 is changed into a toss and kick into orbit (you can mash the square button for punchs). Air grab 1 is a spinning toss into orbit. Air grab 2 is unchanged just like the ground version.

NOTE: It's pretty awesome that air grab 1 can now chop people nearby to pieces somehow...

Cutscene skip is handy...where applicable."

"As I noted, the combat isn't as fluid as before *which was a bit unwieldy to begin with* and targeting has become worse. There are improvements to be had along with new s*** though. Mind Trick has hilarious potential. Force Fury really does make s*** go crazy. They greatly overpowered Repulse."

"Again, the combat is a bit 'off' *even when this is somewhat true with the original*, but workable still. The look of the early part of the level was like some Tron s***. The rest is fine."

~Feel free to continue discussion of the GoS VH PAIN+ here, SBK
#3MrStarkiller(Topic Creator)Posted 10/1/2012 2:20:17 PM
I accidentally posted the second post twice (forgot the first one).

"No choice. I have to skip bits.

>stronger than TB
I somehow doubt it. Where a 'rage' would seem like it should have equal or increased damage, the ease of of negates this. But then, you don't get the defensive perks...and you may not even get unblockable hits. Hard to tell.

>plant two bombs
The first is the special itself and the second is just the 'fire death' case. Both are stuck to the foe, but only the latter seems to have splash to it.

>it shows
Think so?

>companionship
A fine time to have the Golden Touch. That would be a nice Possession for game-breaking. Our hits turn fools to gold (and they don't break out or shatter). Wouldn't work on bosses, but it would be lovely just to storm through as such.

>can guess
You're not familiar with the PAIN SERIES and the like? It's part of the inspiration for naming the highest GoW run. Figures chaps like me would think of that when naming runs.

>analog heavy MGR
Curious. Hands-on would help.

>left hand
What's all this?

>easy mode parries
"You're dumped." - Donte

>don't believe they'll have extra moves or DT later
A fairly safe bet.

>why not
Because the devs are tired of making the game while the fans are not tired of playing it. They just claim there was a demand so they can mostly focus on something not-GoW and that's exactly what it is. Not GoW.

>shall be done
Fire Mode to simulate syphilis?

>humanoid boss
Something I don't remember SWFU2 having much of other than Vader.

>feet dragging
We'll need that new thread to conclude things then.

Mounts of Laconia:Rope A

-...

Mounts of Laconia:Interior:Wooden Arena

-"I like to HC and toss a Satyr towards the Entrance barrier for a better view of others as I pound him before tossing if need be. Simple ground OS spam is enough though. IF you're near others when you tackle or use triangle pounds, they will get hit. With just a Gorgon it is the usual."

Mounts of Laconia:Mountainside:Wall

-I-frames.

Mounts of Laconia:Hoplites

-...

Temple of Ares:Exterior:AoS Trial

-Overhead arrows are unblockable.

"Get flush to the wall and under the left Archer. T into air OS. Get under the other and T into air s,s,s until he dies. Grab rape the Hoplites until gone. Repeat Archer handling."

Mounts of Aroania:Return:Bridge B

-...

Mounts of Aroania:Returnredge

-...

Mounts of Aroania:Return:Bridge D

-...

Shrine of Boreas

-(HoB trial) ...

Canyons of Sorrow:Wraiths

-Nice to attack one after the others have used an attack like Morph Uppercut.

Canyons of Sorrow:Scaffolding

-"Go after the ground Archer with HC into 2x triangle then get the Satyrs to get under the Scaffolding for the same treatment. They aren't good at interrupting the pounds it seems. Then T into air s,s,s until both Archers are dead."

Canyons of Sorrow:Gate:Exterior

-(Archers) "It is possible to do it without fighting enemies, but you take a hit for it. I'd say it is fine to spear toss or return. The latter is surely allowed based on how we word conditions for PAIN+."

Canyons of Sorrow:Gate:Interior

-...

Canyons of Sorrow:River of Lamentath D

-...

Canyons of Sorrow:River of Lament:King Midas

-AI boundaries as ring-outs. Lovely, yes?

Mounts of Aroania:Finalath B

-...

Port of Atlantis:Elevator

-More friendly fire would be nice. Also worthwhile collisions. Indeed the charge pressure is a bother (along with their clipping antics).

Port of Atlantisier

-..."
#4SBK91Posted 10/2/2012 12:35:21 PM
What thoughts do you lads have?

The less Lucas is involved, the better.

It sends them airborne and can combo into air grab which is lovely.

Nice.

We seem invincible during grabs now.

Good Lord. The biggest change from will be to taking apart groups of advanced infantry (EVOs, Felucian Warriors, Sions, Stormtroopers with Scout/Purge support) with melee.

L1 *dash* (no sideflips, all dashes)

i frames?

L1+o - Dashing Blast *costs nothing; weaker most likely*

Good news for navigating. This and Dashing Shock may be more useful against infantry and bosses now.

can move while blocking,

"Holy crap."-Frank Barone

Counter-strike

Stun, i frames, higher power than a usual hit?

The AI is as stupid as ever.

How disappointing. That's what needed the most work in SWFU1. It was unsightly how they would just stop and start moving again, halt whenever you were behind cover, forget you where there. Very 'inorganic' compared to NG, Bayonetta and even GoW. They need to move around more, stay on us, and attack more frequently on harder difficulties.

The overkill option seems mostly gone in that we used to be able to juggle corses a bit after death

No more corpse vortex or using dead troopers to grab Purges?

That move was THE S***.

Best approach ever. Stupid range, fast, very high knockback and decent power.

One large problem is the recovery buffer after the attacking being so long.

These sorts of issues (like GoWIII's targetting and NGS3's responsiveness) are terribly tiresome. It's quite enough to do VH challenge runs without fighting the controls. Imagine NFR+ Maul with this.

It's badass to get in their face with air dash and air grab their f****y asses.

*Ruins Cloud City Jumptroopers with the Imperial March playing in the background*

His petrification is a bother. Instant kill in the air and holds you down annoyingly long (in a row anyway) on the ground.

FU2 can do petrification while GoW:A can't?

Saber throw is devestating when it impales.

It stays lodged in enemies now? Does it deal damage continuously, or all at once?

Repuse really is overpowered.

Even worse than FU1? How's Lightning?

>Mind Trick

Who doesn't love trash talk?

Mind trick controls walkers and ALL FOES.

Alright everyone, single file, off the cliff. Step lively now.

Grip can get somethign like five guys and multi-Lightning Grenade it seems.

I am dah Emprah.

Grab 1 is changed into a toss and kick into orbit

Are these autokills?

As I noted, the combat isn't as fluid as before *which was a bit unwieldy to begin with* and targeting has become worse.

Sad they didn't tighten things up. Reviews like to complain about less enemy variety, only four stages, bad bosses, etc. I wonder how this would hold for Action fans.

Feel free to continue discussion of the GoS VH PAIN+ here, SBK

Will do.

The first is the special itself and the second is just the 'fire death' case.

Do you think the first bomb will be stronger than a regular one?
#5SBK91Posted 10/2/2012 12:35:48 PM
Think so?

My first clue was harpies taking a third of our health with each hit. Reminds me of certain scorpion spawns.

A fine time to have the Golden Touch.

I would prefer Zeus's lightning. Imagine smiting her in the kitchen without having to get out of the armchair (or bed).

Our hits turn fools to gold (and they don't break out or shatter).

Hell, make it a rage variant. The Golden rage, and if we did shatter them reward us with tons of orbs.

You're not familiar with the PAIN SERIES and the like?

Can't say I am.

Figures chaps like me would think of that when naming runs.

It's part of your appeal.

What's all this?

You cut off the left arms of your enemies for upgrades: http://www.destructoid.com/you-ll-need-a-hand-to-upgrade-raiden-in-mgr-revengeance-235815.phtml

Raiden's philosophy has given me an entirely new outlook on pacifism.

Not GoW.

It's hardly greek...

Fire Mode to simulate syphilis?

What about ice? The Ex Wife?

Simple ground OS spam is enough though.

It should chain into infinite OH, given the infinite air OS.

Overhead arrows are unblockable.

Noted.

They aren't good at interrupting the pounds it seems.

I'll give that a shot.

Lovely, yes?

A special treat.

When the lighting starts to come, you may opt to take to the top left corner where one bolt strikes near without hitting us

Can you stay there throughout all the lightning? I've tried to find a sweetspot in my NUR+, but never did.

Petrification being as it should have been would cover such things outside PAIN+.

Even an upgraded EH would break the Geryon/Harpy fight horribly. I was surprised Geryons don't give health at death.

I figured it would eventually.

I'm terribly dense when the subject matter isn't pie.

Ever see the Minotaur block 'stare'?

Yes. Why can't we do that?

Such bad design to have it instant killed via reverse AND infinitely deal damage to us (and lots of it) until we reverse.

And that damn AoE. Good Lord it's huge. Can catch you coming out of a roll.

Fighting 2x Geryon is for Shin and Taz to contend with.

I can somewhat do 2x Geryon for a bit so long as I know their teleport timings and don't get caught by shocks.
#6MrStarkiller(Topic Creator)Posted 10/2/2012 4:32:31 PM
>the less Lucas, the better
Too right.

>various troop types
And the bad news. Most of these don't exist in SWFU2, from what I recall of it. Bunch of new types that don't much play to my tastes.

>i-frames
I don't recall, but probably. I'd likely have noted it otherwise.

>Dashing Shock
Got a nerf in damage and I don't think it goes through walls anymore.

>Dashing Blast
If levels are designed with it in mind, bad things happen.

>move while blocking
An amusing extra, but an air block would really have been something. An air parry would have been 'cuhrayzee'.

>counter hits
I remember nothing about them. Re-reading the report was basically 'fresh' info to me again. I did all that in the first day or so of having the demo (a few hours put in) and basically never touched it again. I somehow doubt they are hard hitting and afford i-frames.

>corpse abuse
Report seems to imply that isn't much of an option and possibly not even with a still living piece of ammo for the 'vortex'.

>these sorts of issues
Problems with dropped moves and bad changes aside (even bad foe design), making the combat sloppy in this way greatly hampers my enjoyment of it. I don't want to be in serious runs and have the wrestle to do what I intend.

>can do petrification
Of a sort anyway. More could have been done with it, but they went light. Trying to target what you want, in my opinion, was harder in this game than the first, so that also made me have negative feelings about the sequel. Being able to catch the shots and redirect them at the help would mean much. Nevermind simple returns to the sender and shattering them (which isn't an option as they don't seem to shatter and recover quick).

>continuously or all-at-once
Likely the latter.

>Repulse
>more OP
Yes.

>lightning comparison
About the same, I suppose.

>off the cliff
Pity we cannot upgrade it to gain precise control of targets (playing as them from their perspective). Fury version allowing precise control of higher level foes (like the Walkers). But then some would whine that Starkiller himself doesn't just take over a vehicle (which would be a somewhat valid point).

>I am
GOD EMPRAH OF MANKIND

NOTE: Except there is no Lightning Shield much less a force fury version that is pretty much just god mode with insane damage on collision. I don't think Force Fury lightning stuns like Palpy's, but the damage was through the roof. Our evades don't quite swoop with constant i-frames either (which is another pity).

>FF grabs
>auto-kills
Probably. The extra hits are just for f***ing around.

>reviews complain about
I'd likely have to agree about that while also re-emphasizing the key weakpoints (controls in general being less tight *with signs that they didn't know what 'worked' about the last entry*).

>first bomb stronger than the regular one
The latter deals nothing to the target and the former might not hit others, so the two may not be comparable. Surely they aren't dumb enough to make the 'rage dump' special's explosion lack splash damage. That would be plain silly.

Making so many HP orbs come from a single target of low level is questionable too. Having it so that all those killed by the explosion drop orbs would better balance it along with higher level targets (more HP) giving more orbs...should help.
#7MrStarkiller(Topic Creator)Posted 10/2/2012 4:54:31 PM
>Zf instead
Yeah, if they made it the real deal rather than a joke. Hell, if they must have it as an item, make regular bolts eat something like 75 units of meter at base (two shots with delayed recovery when at base bar; three shots with delayed recovery at max bar) to keep to bursts of these stronger bolts. If kept weak, then you can afford to make them cheap as Hell (10 units for piss weak damage that can probably be deflected again).

The charged version just eating the whole meter (need at least 75 units to charge/fire) and doing more damage with the extra units with a recovery period after casting (disabling regeneration of the meter *preventing use of even other items for a bit*). Perhaps three seconds. If the old 'charged' version, just make it cost 50 (or even 100) units with the expected 'nerfed' damage. Whatever.

It just feels like the spell version wasn't going to get a fair shake and an item version would just get shafted harder while compensating for it being on a regenerating source. It certainly wouldn't deal 5 damage per hit. More like 2 (3 tops). A charged shot wouldn't be in the ballpark of 50. More like 20-25 while costing a bit more in comparison to regular shots. All this while keeping the problem with the original (being easily negated by foes).

>golden rage
Super Saiyan Kratos.

>can't say
You could always look it up.

>part of my appeal
Perhaps you'll gain a deeper appreciation for myself and the gent when you look into said "PAIN SERIES".

>link
Delightful. Binding of Isaac had something with a 'left hand' being an item and now this has use disarming people for upgrades and maiming otherwise as a 'pacifist' means to spare life. Lovely.

>ice
>ex-wife
Frigid Ice Queen (who caught you fooling around with her sister)?

>stay there throughout
You can fight from the position, yes.

>unupgraded EH/MG
They would make sport of the fight. Catch 2x Geryon together and it is game over. With upgrades that just becomes easier to do. Laughably so with either at MAX, but more so EH with the i-frames, better costs and superior 'rage' (though inferior 'stare').

>why can't we do that
We're not half the man that Minotaur is, clearly. Big balls.

>huge AoE
If it were like the GoWIII Harpies with a small AoE and no hit detection if you are off the floor...or at least the hit from the non-AoE being weak by comparison...but that's not how things played out.

>somewhat do
Keeping it up is the troubling part.
#8SBK91Posted 10/3/2012 12:54:49 PM
Most of these don't exist in SWFU2, from what I recall of it.

That hurts, especially if Grip and Mind Trick ravage them like it sounds.

Got a nerf in damage and I don't think it goes through walls anymore.

Pity.

If levels are designed with it in mind, bad things happen.

They would throw lots of walls in our way to stop speedy navigation, wouldn't they?

I somehow doubt they are hard hitting and afford i-frames.

Not having i frames or knockback really hurts the appeal.

Problems with dropped moves and bad changes aside (even bad foe design), making the combat sloppy in this way greatly hampers my enjoyment of it.

From the sound of the report, most of the game seems to be put together rather hastily compared to even the first game. Bad foes can really drag down the experience. They'd better kept Purges...

Trying to target what you want, in my opinion, was harder in this game than the first, so that also made me have negative feelings about the sequel.

And Force Grip wasn't all that easy to target to begin with.

Yes.

Woohoo.

About the same, I suppose.

Do you think it would still greatly outdamage Saber Throw at MAX?

Fury version allowing precise control of higher level foes (like the Walkers).

Controlling a rancor would be a good time. Or a Purge. DEM MISSILES.

But then some would whine that Starkiller himself doesn't just take over a vehicle (which would be a somewhat valid point).

Still, the option would have been nice.

Except there is no Lightning Shield much less a force fury version that is pretty much just god mode with insane damage on collision.

Bah. Lighting Shield deserved to be better in FU2 given it was rather 'meh' in FU1 (even the fully upgraded Charged version).

Our evades don't quite swoop with constant i-frames either (which is another pity).

Does it alter them at all?

The extra hits are just for f***ing around.

Fine by me.

controls in general being less tight *with signs that they didn't know what 'worked' about the last entry

This trend is getting old.
#9SBK91Posted 10/3/2012 12:55:04 PM
Surely they aren't dumb enough

They haven't disappointed us yet.

It just feels like the spell version wasn't going to get a fair shake and an item version would just get shafted harder while compensating for it being on a regenerating source.

Given vets would be the only ones that used it, they could afford not to nerf it.

A charged shot wouldn't be in the ballpark of 50. More like 20-25 while costing a bit more in comparison to regular shots.

How strong where the original charged bolts? I recall an uncharged bolt doing 8, but don't remember the charged versions.

Super Saiyan Kratos.

I'd like to see his goatee at SS3. SS4 being Rage of Sparta, of course.

Binding of Isaac had something with a 'left hand' being an item and now this has use disarming people for upgrades and maiming otherwise as a 'pacifist' means to spare life.

Better than Gandhi and MLK put together.

who caught you fooling around with her sister

Isn't the point of cheating to do something different from the wife?

You can fight from the position, yes.

Noted.

They would make sport of the fight.

Indeed, it would be NOTHING in GoWII. Collisions, the BH, Rage, or just Gorgon Flash to shatter. With no ridiculous grabs. All too easy.

Big balls.

Would explain why Bayonetta crushes Asura.

but that's not how things played out.

The fact the grab does so much damage while killing the harpy is insulting.

Keeping it up is the troubling part.

That's what she said.
#10MrStarkiller(Topic Creator)Posted 10/3/2012 3:18:19 PM
Mageara was detailed beyond the trailer today. Before she was noted as a hot-tempered "enforcer". Grab happy and physical. Comparisons to Dhalism don't stick beyond ranged play. Talk of parasites can bring up many foe attacks, but using them to possess/re-animate? In the end it comes down to Herc the Jerk style mob back-up (along with the grabs). Hopefully she is faster on her 'not-feet' than Ares (for lack of teleport *presumably*). Speaking of which, her options for defense and countering should be as good or better, but I have my doubts.

NOTE: Her early design shows her with the Nemesis Whips. The more you know.

>walls in the way
This along with making gaps larger so as to force usage rather than merely have the option to cover more ground than is intended (thus it being a force for going around quicker rather than at the pace expected).

>Purges
"I don't think so." - Raiden (MK movie)

>not that easy to target to begin with
True, true. Took time to get a feel for it and even then it took some effort to work correctly.

>outdamage
Force Repulse? Probably. Obviously so in groups.

>Rancor or Purge
I don't recall either in SWFU2.

>deserved better
For the sake of 'rule of cool', I agree. The more we can match or surpass the Emperor, the better. But with the DLC powers, I see still more they could have done to make us obnoxiously OP.

>alter them
I'd have to retest to be certain of all these things. It has been too long since the report for me to fill in the blanks.

>afford not to
>because of vets
All the more reason to nerf it. F*** those guys.

>uncharged
Indeed it was about 8 damage, but could be deflected/blocked. TB was 5 damage without that issue. I forget the cost of Zf though. Charged bolts were pretty damaging, but I lack the old guide. Let's see if I can find it somewhere. *check* Old post:

"I'll say this about the spell though..though its base attack power never gets high (just like TB), it at least gets CHEAPER to use..which is nice. At lvl3 the charge bolt doesn't require long at all to be at full strength. A typical 'stun' bolt does 25 damage (vs basic's 8) for 10MP whereas the short charge version of 'stun' costs 20MP and does 70 damage. A pity it doesn't mow right through creatures with less then 70HP and keep going so when used on Archers and the like..a lined up bolt would be especially lulzy. For reference, Minotaur Grunts have 90HP. Bigger creatures typically have about 300HP. 150 is about average I'd say. *when not considering harpies who are nothing*"

>SS4
All my rage.

>what she said
She needs to work on her strokes.