Kirby's Return to Dreamland Copy Ability Guide (WIP)

#1PlasdurockPosted 10/29/2011 3:29:05 PM
So I'm working on a copy ability guide, mainly for KRR, but I guess I'll put it here too. Basically what I'm doing is testing the damage each attack does by using the metal general as my guinea pig. Obviously since the game just came out this is a work in progress.

Unlike Kirby Super Star, each attack has a range of damage. So when fighting the boss I use the same move over and over again until I find the min and max than I post that range. For example Spark Wave has a range of Spark Wave 397~401 damage while the sparks fired out Kirby's back do Sparks: 157~160 damage.

When testing I try to take into account possible sweet spots too and other things that may effect the damage.

This can be a team effort! You can post findings in this thread or on the KRR forums if you're a member there. I'll then update the OP. I'll also test any results people come up with to confirm stuff :)



Here's what I have so far.

Spark:
Spark Arrow: 77~81
Spark Laser 168~181
Spark Wave 397~401 Sparks: 157~160
Lightning Strike 157~161
Thunderbolt 137~140
Spark attack: 67~81
Barrier: 67~81

*Spark Wave travels across the entire screen and penetrates walls.

Hammer:
Hammer: 277~280
Hammer Spin: 258~260
Giant Hammer Spin:137- 161
Hammer Flip 801 Flames: 69~80
Triple Hammer Hit 1: 157~161 Hit 2: 157~161 Hit 3: 399 Stars: 278
Hammer Swing 257~260
Hammer Twirl 137~161 Invincibility frames
Hammer Throw: 717~721

*Flames hit multiple times
*Invincible during Hammer swing and Hammer twirl

King Dedede:
Hammer: 228-231
Midair Hammer Swing: 288~231
Hammer Flip: 397~401
Triple Hammer Hit 1: 141 Hit 2: 141 Hit 3: 281 Stars: 100
Giant Dedede Swing: 288~231
Dedede Hammer Twirl 177~140
Dedede Hammer throw 280

*Dedede is weaker than Hammer Kirby
*Hammer Flip doesn't have flames
*Invincible during Hammer Swing and Hammer Twirl

Stone:
Turbo Stone: 318~321
Stone Smash: 400
Stone Change: 401 Change back: 197~200
Stone Uppercut: 197~200
Heavy Smash: 498~501 Shockwave: 31~41



Sword:
Sword beam: 158~161
Over head Slash: 158~161
Shop and Thrust: 158~161
Multi Sword Attack: 69~71 Final Hit: 98~100
Spin Slash: 98~ 101 Final hit: 278~281
Down Thrust: Point Blank: 158 Sword Strike: 217~221
Drill Stab: 117~121
Sword Spin: 117~121
Upward Slash 117~121
Sword Dive 117`121 Point blank :317~329

*Sword Dive has a sweet spot when slamming the ground that does high damage.



Ninja:
Stealth Slash: 67~81 (Each hit)
Knife Throw: 67~81
Air Drop 497~501 Thrown Star/Enemy 598~601
Shock: 247~ 250
Quad Shock: 209~211
Ninja Kick: 178~181
Smoke Counter: 258~261
Blossom: Fan: 100 Flowers167~171
Smoke Screen: 157~161

*Invincible during smoke screen and Stealth Slash
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Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -Mark Twain
#2gsk6390Posted 10/29/2011 3:31:41 PM
Please read this topic (especially the last couple of posts)

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/935607-kirbys-return-to-dreamland/60586372
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100 Awesome Kirbies: http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=253
UK gamer with online Smash64 and MvC3
#3Plasdurock(Topic Creator)Posted 10/29/2011 3:54:49 PM(edited)
Ah the character differences thread!

Of the 4 suggestions I had in my previous post about damage variance, only one is correct. Bosses take normal damage most of the time, but half the normal damage during specific moments. These moments tend to be specific attacks. For example, Plasma Wave does 40 dmg normally. However, when used on Metal General when he's doing that 4-way shooting move in the air, it only does 20 dmg. Note that for the damage, I've just divided by 10 then rounded to nearest integer. I think this is gonna be the most convenient way to treat damage as it will allow us to compare damage buffs/nerfs to KSS/KSSU and the fact that the damage variance is negligible. Also, it will make estimating Boss health a lot easier.

So we noticed the same things. Also attacks do less damage to metal general when he's riding his missile. But they were quite literally double digits. Like 20 or 30 for example.


Want to co-operate on damage data in this thread? We'll be able to get through all the abilities faster, together. :)

I was going to do Tornado and Leaf next
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Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -Mark Twain
#4gsk6390Posted 10/29/2011 4:43:05 PM(edited)
Ah the character differences thread!

Yeah, I had a feeling a while back that if it had been named that instead, it would've got more attention. Oh well...

Since you're doing a damage thread, I guess the only thing I can do (once I get round to it) is verify everything and keep an Excel file (that presents the data nicely) as backup. But as I've said, I'm gonna divide the raw numbers by 10 then round to the nearest integer.

Also, I'm nearly 100% sure that all damage has a range that starts with a 7 in the units column and ends with a 1 in the units column. For example, for Hammer Flip I've seen 797-801, for Wave Beam I've seen 317-321, for Beam Machine Gun I've seen 137-141 per hit. This is partly why I think the damage doesn't actually vary on a hit-by-hit basis and that it was done as an effect to make it more like an RPG. In fact, a part of me wonders if Metal General is supposed to be a reference to some sort of obscure RPG character/boss out there?

Also attacks do less damage to metal general when he's riding his missile. But they were quite literally double digits. Like 20 or 30 for example

Ah, so that means I was wrong in thinking that any damage reduction move a boss has simply halves the damage. I kinda like that they've implemented this, as it could mean getting the best times possible with each power solo & character solo is gonna be much more interesting in this game than KSS/KSSU

Want to co-operate on damage data in this thread? We'll be able to get through all the abilities faster, together. :)

OK! But, I'm not sure how much time I can dedicate to it in the next few days (personal stuff) and I still need to reach that point with my copy of the game (got it yesterday, only played up to World 3).

2 corrections?:

Dedede's Hammer Throw does 317-321 in-game
Dedede's basic ground hit does 257-261 in-game

Here's video proof (as I personally haven't actually got round to testing it myself):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rRLS4z32No

Meta Knight

1st slash: 157-161
2nd slash: 137-141
3rd slash: 157-161
Basic air slash: Sexkick properties, early hit 217-221, late hit 157-161

Video proof (same reason as above): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn0rnUwndMA
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100 Awesome Kirbies: http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=253
UK gamer with online Smash64 and MvC3
#5Plasdurock(Topic Creator)Posted 10/29/2011 5:08:55 PM(edited)
Ah, so you'll do the math, and I'll just do raw data then?


here are my results for beam

Beam:
Beam Blast: 137~140 Sweet Spot 157~161
Wave Beam: 318~320
Beam Whip: 78-81
Cycle Beam: 177~180
Revolution Beam: 197~201
Capture beam: Held Object: 157~160 Thrown Object 598-600


Ya know we just found something with dedede... My number are based off of using hammer throw constantly in battles in STORY mode So that means he's nerfed in story mode! There may be other differences too.

This may or may not apply to meta and waddle dee too.


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Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -Mark Twain
#6gsk6390Posted 10/29/2011 5:50:18 PM(edited)
Ya know we just found something with dedede... My number are based off of using hammer throw constantly in battles in STORY mode So that means he's nerfed in story mode! There may be other differences too.

I just had a thought...I'm sure you remember how in KSS/KSSU, if you start a boss fight with 2 players, the boss has approx 20% more health than if you had started the fight with just 1 player? Well, what if in this game, instead of having boss health scale, they decided it would be easier to simply implement a damage scale if in any situation with more than 1 player?

Edit: I think I might be right! Pay attention to Plasma Wave damage. It's only doing around 360!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Ee83ZVevg

Therefore, if we want Meta Knight's, King Dedede's and Bandanna Dee's true damage, we have to use Arena/True Arena!

Ninja's kunai damage is odd. The 1st one you throw out of a "set" does 77-81 whereas the rest of that set do 67-71. For example, if at any time you were to mash out 8 kunais in one go, the latter 7 do less than the 1st. If the 1st doesn't hit, the others still do 67-71 ie. the extra damage is ONLY for the 1st button press to start throwing them. Here's a vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SmNYoH2fIc&feature=related
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100 Awesome Kirbies: http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=253
UK gamer with online Smash64 and MvC3
#7_ClintonPosted 10/29/2011 5:37:29 PM
D3's hammer may not lite on fire but the charge up time for his hammer flip still does damage. I'd say his is better as well because him being bigger than Kirby is a plus here (he can hit the final boss and air based foes while charging his hammer).

Anyway for Arena:
Crash:
base-991
charged-997

Mike:
1=328
2=528
3=
3 charged=1000

Going to do more testing with this of course but for now this is what I got.

I've also done testing with beam, MK, and WD but I notice you did a better job on those than I did.
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In this Forum: People actually take the quotes of a senile old gorilla, with illusions of grandeur, as serious time line related instances. -SuperSonic2K2
#8ansujitsuPosted 10/29/2011 5:47:25 PM(edited)
This is excellent work guys. I can't imagine how long and frustrating it will be to get the damage data for all abilities.
#9Plasdurock(Topic Creator)Posted 10/29/2011 7:52:31 PM
_Clinton posted...
D3's hammer may not lite on fire but the charge up time for his hammer flip still does damage. I'd say his is better as well because him being bigger than Kirby is a plus here (he can hit the final boss and air based foes while charging his hammer).

Anyway for Arena:
Crash:
base-991
charged-997

Mike:
1=328
2=528
3=
3 charged=1000

Going to do more testing with this of course but for now this is what I got.

I've also done testing with beam, MK, and WD but I notice you did a better job on those than I did.


I'll test those two to confirm stuff thanks!
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Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -Mark Twain
#10Plasdurock(Topic Creator)Posted 10/29/2011 7:59:46 PM(edited)
Corrections:

*When adding a second Player damage is reduced by roughly 10-12% Adding Third player adds another 3% reduction to that. Adding a forth is another 3% (somebody please test this)

Spark:
Spark Arrow: 77~81
Spark Laser 167~181
Spark Wave 397~401 Sparks: 157~161
Lightning Strike 157~161
Thunderbolt 137~141
Spark attack: 67~81
Spark Barrier: 67~81


Hammer:
Hammer: 277~281
Hammer Spin: 257~261
Giant Hammer Spin:137- 161
Hammer Flip 797~801 Flames: 67~81
Triple Hammer Hit 1: 157~161 Hit 2: 157~161 Hit 3: 399 Stars: 278
Hammer Swing 257~261
Hammer Twirl 137~161 Invincibility frames
Hammer Throw


King Dedede:
Hammer Flip: (Arena) 447~451 (2P) 397~401
Hammer: (Arena): 257~261 (2P) 227~231
Midair Hammer Swing: (Arena): 257~261 (2P) 227~231
Triple Hammer (Arena): Hit 1: 157~161 Hit 2: 157~161 Hit 317~ Stars: 187~121 (Hit 1: 141 Hit 2: 141 Hit 3: 281 Stars: 100
Giant Dedede Swing: (Arena) 261 (2P) 287~231
Dedede Hammer Twirl (Arena)137~161 (2P)117~140
Dedede Hammer throw (Arena) 317~321 (2P) 277~281



Stone:

Turbo Stone: 317~321
Stone Smash: 397~401
Stone Change: 397~401 Change back: 197~201
Stone Uppercut: 197~201
Heavy Smash: 497~501 Shockwave: 31~41


Sword:
Sword beam: 157~161
Over head Slash: 157~161
Shop and Thrust: 157~161
Multi Sword Attack: 67~71 Final Hit: 98~100
Spin Slash: 97~ 101 Final hit: 277~281
Down Thrust: Shockwave: 157~161 Sword Strike: 217~221
Drill Stab: 117~121
Sword Spin: 117~121
Upward Slash 117~121
Sword Dive 117`121 Point blank impact: 317~321


Ninja:
Stealth Slash: 67~81 (Each hit)
Knife Throw: 67~81
Air Drop 497~501 Thrown Star/Enemy 598~601
Shock: 247~ 251
Quad Shock: 207~211
Ninja Kick: 177~181
Smoke Counter: 257~261
Blossom: Fan: 100 Flowers: 167~171
Smoke Screen: 157~161

Beam:
Beam Blast: 137~141 Sweet Spot -157~161
Wave Beam: 317~321
Beam Whip: 77-81
Cycle Beam: 177~181
Revolution Beam: 197~201
Capture beam: Held Object: 157~161 Thrown Object 597-601

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Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't. -Mark Twain