Grotto Maps Level 85 and higher

#1xeno_eleusisPosted 3/19/2012 12:37:51 PM
Copper Ruins of Hurt Lv. 85 was the map I received after defeating the Fowl Eye in a map named Gold Path of Regret Lv. 76.

My Party when defeating this level 85 map:
Warrior +1 level 99
Warrior level 99
Warrior level 99
Mage level 99

When I beat this level 85 map, I consistently get maps that are lower than level 70. I've even received multiple maps that are in the 40's.

I read somewhere that you can't receive a map higher than level 85 unless you reincarnate at least once and you are at least level 99.

Grinding MKS is painfully slow in the grottos. I get 1-2 levels when solo'ing and one level every other MKS kill when playing with four in the party. My current party is maxed out for XP and I still can't get a map that is higher than level 85 but what's worse is that ever since I got the level 85 map, now I can't get a map that's even level 70.

I have several maps from level 50 through level 75 where MKS sometimes appear on floor 9 and higher. For a while, I would generate more maps by defeating the boss in them and there was about a 1 in 3 chance that I would get a map that was slightly higher than the map I was using.

My three highest level maps are:
Silver Lair of Gloom Lv. 78
Platinum Maze of Regret Lv. 83
Copper Ruins of Hurt Lv, 85

I don't remember which map yielded the level 78 and level 83 maps but I have defeated the Boss in all three of them more than 10 times each and I consistently get level 75 and lower maps and often level 60 and lower and sometimes level 45 and lower.

Before I received this level 85 map, I never received maps that were lower than level 60 and now I am lucky to get one that is in the 60's at all. I have so many maps that I have to delete one each time that I get a new map. I feel that I have hit an unintended mathematical loop in the game code that is preventing me from getting higher level maps and I don't know what to do to get past this.

Other info that might help:
After I reached the limit on the number of maps I am allowed to carry, I started to write down the Ranks of the maps based on the monsters on level 1 and I found that all of my maps are ranks H, G, F and E except for one, my Gold Path of Regret Lv. 76 which have Terror Trolls, King Crabs on level one of this Nature Grotto, Fowl Eye is the Boss and there are 13 floors.

If you know what I am doing wrong, please let me know. I beat the game a few months after it was released and I have been playing it off and on ever since. There was a point when I had not found a single MKS Grotto, but that ended once my main character was high enough level that I started to get maps of level 60 and higher. Now, it is unclear what I need to do to get higher level maps.

What do I think will happen if I can get higher than level 85 maps?
I only have one legacy boss map and that's from the quest. I think that if I can get higher level maps then eventually I may get another legacy map.
I still haven't found a Platinum Metal Jewel map. If I can find higher level maps, hopefully the quality of my maps will also increase and I will start to find PMJ's.
#2FefnirOmega13Posted 3/19/2012 1:12:45 PM
In all honesty I found that it began to level out when I hit around the 82 mark (My best map at that time was Ruby Crypt of Evil 82) and then from that point on it took me 10 reruns to grab a higher level map.


I think my highest eight maps go as follows (and I've run each one about a dozen times on average:

82
83
85
87
88
91
92
95 (GB#12, so useless)

I'm currently a 99 +6 Revocation Minstrel and I'm finding the same problems as you are. In addition, the diamond maps I get are always below L70 in quality..

Just keep trying, I guess. Level isn't guaranteed by anything, iirc.
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#3BathrezzPosted 3/19/2012 1:22:24 PM

Its all about luck. After one revocation i got a lev91 map

#4xeno_eleusis(Topic Creator)Posted 3/19/2012 1:25:36 PM
FefnirOmega13 posted...
I'm currently a 99 +6 Revocation Minstrel and I'm finding the same problems as you are. In addition, the diamond maps I get are always below L70 in quality.. Just keep trying, I guess. Level isn't guaranteed by anything, iirc.

Thanks for the reply. I'm going to keep leveling and I'm going to start to reincarnate my party. Sorry but I'm glad you noticed the problem too and I don't feel like it's just me. I still feel that you didn't notice the problem at my level and that there must be another factor that is causing the game not to generate higher level maps.
#5QuisquiliaPosted 3/19/2012 3:48:07 PM
The only factor preventing you from getting higher level maps is the RNG.

At level 99 with 1 revocation, running a level 85 map produces a Base Quality of 189; after variance, this becomes a Final Quality of 171 to 206. This breaks down to a 10/36 chance of receiving a rank 9 map, a 20/36 chance of a rank 10 map, and a 6/36 chance of a rank 11 map.

According to the DQ9 Save Editor's map database, at rank 9, there are 757/32466 maps with level 86 or higher; at rank 10, 8036/32466; and at rank 11, 2116/32466.

Consequently, your chances of receiving a map with level 86+ are (10/36)(757/32466)+(20/36)(8036/32466)+(6/36)(2116/32466), or about 15.5%.

(Unless someone comes by and tells me I'm wrong, which is always possible.)
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#6xeno_eleusis(Topic Creator)Posted 3/19/2012 5:23:46 PM
Quisquilia posted...
The only factor preventing you from getting higher level maps is the RNG.

At level 99 with 1 revocation, running a level 85 map produces a Base Quality of 189; after variance, this becomes a Final Quality of 171 to 206. This breaks down to a 10/36 chance of receiving a rank 9 map, a 20/36 chance of a rank 10 map, and a 6/36 chance of a rank 11 map.

According to the DQ9 Save Editor's map database, at rank 9, there are 757/32466 maps with level 86 or higher; at rank 10, 8036/32466; and at rank 11, 2116/32466.

Consequently, your chances of receiving a map with level 86+ are (10/36)(757/32466)+(20/36)(8036/32466)+(6/36)(2116/32466), or about 15.5%.

(Unless someone comes by and tells me I'm wrong, which is always possible.)


Thanks for the reply. Yes, this is the math that I was reading about when I thought that something had gone wrong. I guess the problem is that I thought it was impossible to get a level 45 map from a level 85 map.

After posting this thread, I received a level 86 map rank D. I am very happy now and I guess I just had a couple of years of bad luck with the RNG. If I start getting lower rank and level maps again I will post more details about what I am doing in an effort for someone to help me figure it out.
#7Duke DarkwoodPosted 3/19/2012 10:51:30 PM
According to this...

http://www.woodus.com/den/games/dq9ds/dq9_grotto.html#Predict_H4axg_Netxc_I0_R0

... you can get as high as A-rank with your parameters from the first post (Level 99, 0 Revocations, Grotto Level 85).

Thing is, of the ranks you can get... C-Rank has a range from 49-92, B-Rank is from 58-99, and A-Rank is from 46-99.

What does this mean for you? More of those numbers are below 85 than above it.

You see, the grotto equation determines quality of the new map, which in turn determines its RANK. But the level can be anything in the range appropriate for that rank.

"Level" is only really needed for determining your next grotto you get.
"Rank" is used for how good the stuff in a grotto will be - treasure, monsters, and the boss, for example.
(Obviously, it's a bit more complicated than that, but we have a sticky covering those details, if you're that interested.)

Now, there is ONE thing you can't get if you haven't Revocated at least once - you cannot get an S-Rank Grotto. The quality required is just a tiny bit (5 points) higher than you can possibly have with a Lv99 hero and Lv99 Grotto, but 0 Revocations.

Lastly - when you Revocate, your level for that vocation will reset to 1, meaning that for the Grotto formula, the highest level LEFT on your vocation list (look under Attributes, hero, then hit A a few times) will be used instead. For this reason, many prefer to get two vocations to 99, before Revocating one. (Generally, their main is the one they keep at 99, while one that levels fast - Martial Artist being the fastest - will be the one they Revocate over and over to raise grotto qualities.)
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#8yabPosted 3/20/2012 1:07:45 AM
Getting a level 86+ map at BQ 189 is 10467/65536 (15.97%).. so yeah, close enough
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#9RamirezGloomPosted 3/20/2012 11:22:20 AM
Also don't let the level numbers fool you. I have a lv 75 ruins grotto with PKJs and a lv87 ruins grotto with nothing but scrub monsters. Just check out all the other dungeons but constantly spam the higher quality ones first. Its a nice clean solid method i'v found.
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#10xeno_eleusis(Topic Creator)Posted 3/20/2012 3:43:15 PM
Duke Darkwood posted...
http://www.woodus.com/den/games/dq9ds/dq9_grotto.html#Predict_H4axg_Netxc_I0_R0
... you can get as high as A-rank with your parameters from the first post (Level 99, 0 Revocations, Grotto Level 85).


Great info. I have a level 99 with 1 revocation and I just got my first map higher than 85. It should be easier if I revocate more.

yab posted...
Getting a level 86+ map at BQ 189 is 10467/65536 (15.97%).. so yeah, close enough

Nice, thanks for doing the math. It took me a while to get this map so it was a small 16 percent.

RamirezGloom posted...
...I have a lv 75 ruins grotto with PKJs and a lv87 ruins grotto with nothing but scrub monsters.

It takes me a long time to find a grotto, identify the monsters and the rank, find the highest floor and beat the boss, decide if I am going to delete the map or replay it. I wish there was a faster method or an easier way to decide on how to keep a map or weather the map will generate better maps than your other maps.

Right now, I am throwing away any map that is rank F or lower and I am keeping my maps level 80 and higher no matter the quality. My best rank map is still only D-Rank and I am eager to find a C-Rank map no matter the level.