Delita

#11Equinox_OscurasPosted 4/27/2013 8:25:22 PM
styrrr posted...
Almost nobody believed in the existence of Lucavi; only those who traveled with Ramza and saw their effects first hand: In Chapter 2 it was only Ramza, Agrias, Mustadio, Alicia/Lavian if they are still alive, and perhaps some generics. Later on he gets more recruits, but that initial ragtag team saw the first Lucavi in Lionel and probably had a jaw-dropping moment when he transformed.


To add to your point, Styrrr, this is quite true. The matter of it all is that more than knowing of the Lucavi, no one even thought of the Auracite as a true thing. If you recall, even Ovelia, who was taught to be a devout student of the church, when she was first shown the Auracite mentioned "She had not thought them real." It, and the Lucavi, were a well guarded secret.
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#12MetastasePosted 4/28/2013 8:35:25 AM
Wait, it's confirmed that Orran Durai was burned by Delita's direct command? Is it possible to estimate Delita's control on the Church of Glabados after the game events?

I'm asking this because "burning at stake" is something the Church would do, but if it was Delita's decision wouldn't he kill him quietly without gathering too much attention? Also, he spared CID himself.

Despite the poetic ending CGI, all of this leads me to believe Ramza and all others died in the last battle. Everything seems to point to it y'know...

- Why Agrias didn't come after Delita when Ovelia died?

- Why Orran wasn't rescued, specially by Thunder God himself (this one is very hard to explain if he was alive, he could easily gather followers/military AND prove himself to be alive)?

- Why characters like Meliadoul, Beowulf, Marach and specially Rapha would remain silent about the Church of Glabados? The "lasing peace" argument would be plausible up to Orran execution plus Meliadoul and Beowulf had their military/noble connections too.
#13styrrrPosted 4/28/2013 11:09:13 AM(edited)
Metastase posted...
Wait, it's confirmed that Orran Durai was burned by Delita's direct command? Is it possible to estimate Delita's control on the Church of Glabados after the game events?

I'm asking this because "burning at stake" is something the Church would do, but if it was Delita's decision wouldn't he kill him quietly without gathering too much attention? Also, he spared CID himself.

Despite the poetic ending CGI, all of this leads me to believe Ramza and all others died in the last battle. Everything seems to point to it y'know...

- Why Agrias didn't come after Delita when Ovelia died?

- Why Orran wasn't rescued, specially by Thunder God himself?

- Why characters like Meliadoul, Beowulf, Marach and specially Rapha would remain silent about the Church of Glabados?


1) It's not confirmed whether or not Orran's death was the work of Delita, but consider when Ramza first told Delita of what Orran told him at Zeltennia Church. "Orran, eh?" In my opinion this basically cemented Delita's opinion that Orran 'might be trouble' down the line due to Orran wanting to expose the Church - and by extension - wanting to expose Delita at some point in the future. To the public it would've revealed that Delita was not the hero of Ivalice, but rather Ramza the heretic! Back in the Middle Ages, Kings lived and died based upon their reputation.

He may not have held power in the Church by the time he was King... but he was a former Holy Knight... and the reigning King of Ivalice! That has to count for something. I think Delita read the Durai Papers to sate his curiosity about Ramza - and afterwards had the church brand Orran a heretic to keep his hands clean. You do make a good point though, Delita could've done it himself... maybe he wanted Orran's death to be public on purpose? Maybe Delita did nothing.......?

I believe he spared Cid so Ramza could use him to take down the rogue elements in Delita's plan - the Templars - who posed the biggest threat to him and his reign. He was banking on Ramza, being the noble heretic he is, to mop the Templars up in a way that only heretics can do; Ramza essentially gutted the entire Templar organization by himself. Delita himself couldn't openly move against the Templars but Ramza could.. and he did a spectacular job, don't you think? It took the Church 5 years to convene and elect a new High Priest!

2) Delita probably hushed it up, maybe made it look like an accident or something.. who knows? He was a genius at turning unfavorable events into favorable ones. He probably started wearing black and had a public funeral for his wife after her "chocobo accident". *wink*

3) Cid was already quite old when he joins Ramza's party. It isn't unthinkable that the stress of fighting the Lucavi shaved some years off his retirement. He might've had a heart attack while having a nightmare or something... who knows? I doubt Cid ever thought about returning to his son - he was "dead", remember? - and probably died before Orran became a heretic...

4) I think those in Ramza's party mostly left Ivalice, but it's hard to say; perhaps Mustadio stayed in Goug, etc, but nobody really knows. I also think Ramza met with Orran one last time to give him details about his journey that Orran couldn't have known otherwise, like Orbonne and Ajora, but that's my speculation and opinion. I'm not sure what happened to the Scriptures though, does anybody know? Without it they didn't have much proof.. their word vs the Church and the King. Not good for your life, as Orran found out.

Personally I think Ramza's party split up and left Ivalice, moving far, far away: Matsuno (FFT's writer) even commented on Twitter about Ramza dying in FFT - he confirmed that he IS alive - link: https://twitter.com/yasumimatsuno/status/169572953686683648

To me, that's good proof Ramza is alive. YMMV.
#14lindaluv(Topic Creator)Posted 4/28/2013 1:16:05 PM
But thats what I dont get. Orran went to Delibeans with the papers to "expose" the truth, and Delibeans could have very well told Orran that this isnt the smartest thing to do now since peace has been achieved. But then again, knowing Delibreads budding case of paranoia at this point, he just didnt want to take that chance.

Also, when did Delita ever have the balls to "spare" the great Thunder King CID !!! Im sure CID wouldve wiped the floor with his ugly butt.. I always thought he let him go knowing if he had initiated any attempt at taking CIDs life.. it would have very well meant Delibeans death and not CIDs.

And as to the reason why I think Ramza, Agrias and Alma, and CID did not intervene or go after Delibread was probably because they knew very little of the vileness delibeans used and only saw the result of Delitas "hard work". They probably witnessed the peace that was emerging and decided they had enough battles for now and welcomed the peace. Im also assuming Agrias never knew Delibird was responsible for Ovelias death, like Terran said, he probably spun some fantastic bull crap tale and blamed it on a noble to further his cause and further villainise the nobility.
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#15terran3999999Posted 4/28/2013 7:48:41 PM
That all depends if Orran sees him eye to eye on the matter, the smart move yet cruel would be to not take that risk.

And you need to drop the hater gimmick.

Also, when did Delita ever have the balls to "spare" the great Thunder King CID !!!
Remember that part when Delita was able to used a (convincing enough)double to frame Cid for Goltanna's murder? Cid would have died and Delita wouldn't have even needed to dirty his own hand for it.
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Katawa Shoujo: The visual novel that defies and kicks logic to the curb.
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#16lindaluv(Topic Creator)Posted 4/29/2013 6:49:23 AM
terran3999999 posted...
That all depends if Orran sees him eye to eye on the matter, the smart move yet cruel would be to not take that risk.

And you need to drop the hater gimmick.

Also, when did Delita ever have the balls to "spare" the great Thunder King CID !!!
Remember that part when Delita was able to used a (convincing enough)double to frame Cid for Goltanna's murder? Cid would have died and Delita wouldn't have even needed to dirty his own hand for it.


What hater gimmick? Also, by having to use such a tactic it only serves to show his fear of confronting Cid head on, most likely this was the only way to remove a formidable "foe", and only serves to show even more the pansiness of delita.

I dont remember anything about a "convincing" double.. what I remember is Delita letting Cid go from the dungeon/prison scene, and Delita clearly knowing his place in Cids presence.
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MolaMadara : Punkin (200 - Ranger) - http://i.imgur.com/peZhp.jpg
#17terran3999999Posted 4/29/2013 7:16:10 AM
*sigh*

You don't remember who "killed" Goltanna? Go rewatch that scene in the Chronicles tab.
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Katawa Shoujo: The visual novel that defies and kicks logic to the curb.
Official contender to fight for Lilly as waifu.
#18Equinox_OscurasPosted 4/29/2013 9:50:47 AM
lindaluv posted...

I dont remember anything about a "convincing" double.. what I remember is Delita letting Cid go from the dungeon/prison scene, and Delita clearly knowing his place in Cids presence.


No, it's true. There was undoubtedly the bringing about of a Cid-Double.
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Playing: Gods Eater Burst & Persona 3 Portable
"You Will See...Momentary Mastery!"
#19MetastasePosted 4/29/2013 1:37:00 PM
Oh..that would explain it. I still don't buy that T.G. simply didn't do anything to stop Orran execution (or that Agrias didn't question Ovelia's death).

Maybe Delita never even glanced at the Scriptures? Maybe he never knew about the Lucavi and took no part in Orran execution. Actually, he probably couldn't even prevent his execution because the Church was a totally independent entity.

But this brings another question though. What Delita expected by letting Valmafra and Orran escape from Zeltennia? At that point, he already knew what Orran was up to so why let him escape?
#20Equinox_OscurasPosted 4/29/2013 2:53:22 PM
I'd like to point out, if we restrict ourselves to using solely what the game has given us, putting aside personal speculation, then you cannot forget.... in the closing of the game, whilst Orran is presenr at Ramza's 'funeral', he makes a comment about his father's fate in battle. As far as we can knowingly say, it would appear that, while Ramza and Alma did in fact survive the battle with Ultima, the others (that is to say Cid, Agrias, et cetra) would seem to have perished. Their fate is never made clear unlike that of our hero. I think that could answer our question of why Agrias did not avenge Ovelia or as to why Cid did not do the same for Orran.
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Playing: Gods Eater Burst & Persona 3 Portable
"You Will See...Momentary Mastery!"