Delita

#41terran3999999Posted 5/2/2013 5:45:16 PM
A reference works both ways, its really not that hard to grasp.

XII does reference VS but its usually just the location of places. Is it so hard to believe that certain areas can last that long in history? There are dozens of easy parallels in real life that will match it.
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Katawa Shoujo: The visual novel that defies and kicks logic to the curb.
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#42Equinox_OscurasPosted 5/2/2013 6:50:37 PM
terran3999999 posted...
A reference works both ways, its really not that hard to grasp.

XII does reference VS but its usually just the location of places. Is it so hard to believe that certain areas can last that long in history? There are dozens of easy parallels in real life that will match it.


On that note about locations....the Dynast -King they speak of in FF-XII is the one who founded the Galtaen Alliance that stretched from Ordalia to Valendia. Ordalia, of course, being the part of Ivalice where FFT was set. Valendia, likewise, is that part of Ivalice where Vagrant Story was set.
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#43lindaluv(Topic Creator)Posted 5/8/2013 9:59:22 AM
So FF12 was before FFT, which means the Nethicytes are in fact the zodiac stones? Doesnt change the fact that delita is a buttface.
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#44terran3999999Posted 5/8/2013 5:13:34 PM
What happen to you not being a hater?
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Katawa Shoujo: The visual novel that defies and kicks logic to the curb.
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#45lindaluv(Topic Creator)Posted 5/8/2013 6:51:56 PM
terran3999999 posted...
What happen to you not being a hater?


I dont think its so much of being a hater, just disliking the fact that a potentially noble and great guy would resort to the very things he set out to abolish to accomplish his revenge and then eventual lust and development of OCD in maintaining that fake fašade.
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#46MetastasePosted 5/11/2013 8:27:51 PM
He was not motivated by lust. IMO...

Ever since they killed his sister, he was determined to abolish the system where nobles fought with egotistical intentions and the lives of the others were wasted.

He sacrificed everything that he was and had, but damn, he delivered. Isn't the Golden Age enough? For this much determination and sacrifice, I can't think of a greater cause and he achieved the impossible.

The facade wasn't a pleasure for him, but he understood it as necessary for the benefit of the majority. Comparing to our own world, I think he was right.

He concluded that only power could bring out the changes needed, for good intentions die as if they had never been born without the power needed to transform them in reality.
#47MarquessLausPosted 5/16/2013 1:34:35 PM
Metastase posted...
He was not motivated by lust. IMO...

Ever since they killed his sister, he was determined to abolish the system where nobles fought with egotistical intentions and the lives of the others were wasted.

He sacrificed everything that he was and had, but damn, he delivered. Isn't the Golden Age enough? For this much determination and sacrifice, I can't think of a greater cause and he achieved the impossible.

The facade wasn't a pleasure for him, but he understood it as necessary for the benefit of the majority. Comparing to our own world, I think he was right.

He concluded that only power could bring out the changes needed, for good intentions die as if they had never been born without the power needed to transform them in reality.


And after the war he started was over and all those in Ivalice that were in a place of pover beside him were dead the Church under his reign was still free to burn anyone that spoke against them alive.
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#48styrrrPosted 5/16/2013 7:00:16 PM
MarquessLaus posted...
And after the war he started was over and all those in Ivalice that were in a place of pover beside him were dead the Church under his reign was still free to burn anyone that spoke against them alive.


Yes. But consider that it took the Church *five* years to convene and elect a new High Priest; around the same time that Orran was conveniently labeled a heretic.

Delita used Ramza - spectacularly, I might add - to both cripple and maim the Church and the Templarate alike, causing a power vacuum that took YEARS for them to recover from.

Ramza was in the relatively unique position of being a heretic while also morally upright with a penchant for justice. As such, he was manipulated by Delita into "cleaning up" his loose ends: Folmarv - who Delita had once worked and trained under - and his lackeys, along with others in Mullonde who would have opposed Delita's betrayal... had they survived Folmarv's betrayal.

Delita knew that Folmarv had planned the entire War of the Lions - though I don't think he knew of him being Lucavi - and knew that Ramza wouldn't take that "lying down". As a result, Ramza would eventually find - and kill - Folmarv to stop the war. Only Delita didn't know about the Lucavi... or that Ramza was racing against them to save Ivalice from an impending disaster.

Really, it was a "perfect storm" of luck that allowed Delita to come into power how he did. Had the Capricorn stone 'chosen' Delita, someone else would have ruled Ivalice post-Lucavi. Delita was supremely lucky that Ramza was off doing his own thing and didn't know of the nasty crap Delita was himself doing.

Had Ramza known what Delita was doing, however.... I think there's a very good chance he, or Agrias, would have personally paid King Delita a visit. And despite Delita's threat at Zeltennia's Church, there is - in my opinion - almost no chance he could have killed Ramza in combat.
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#49MarquessLausPosted 5/17/2013 3:43:22 AM
styrrr posted...
MarquessLaus posted...
And after the war he started was over and all those in Ivalice that were in a place of pover beside him were dead the Church under his reign was still free to burn anyone that spoke against them alive.


Yes. But consider that it took the Church *five* years to convene and elect a new High Priest; around the same time that Orran was conveniently labeled a heretic.

Delita used Ramza - spectacularly, I might add - to both cripple and maim the Church and the Templarate alike, causing a power vacuum that took YEARS for them to recover from.

Ramza was in the relatively unique position of being a heretic while also morally upright with a penchant for justice. As such, he was manipulated by Delita into "cleaning up" his loose ends: Folmarv - who Delita had once worked and trained under - and his lackeys, along with others in Mullonde who would have opposed Delita's betrayal... had they survived Folmarv's betrayal.

Delita knew that Folmarv had planned the entire War of the Lions - though I don't think he knew of him being Lucavi - and knew that Ramza wouldn't take that "lying down". As a result, Ramza would eventually find - and kill - Folmarv to stop the war. Only Delita didn't know about the Lucavi... or that Ramza was racing against them to save Ivalice from an impending disaster.

Really, it was a "perfect storm" of luck that allowed Delita to come into power how he did. Had the Capricorn stone 'chosen' Delita, someone else would have ruled Ivalice post-Lucavi. Delita was supremely lucky that Ramza was off doing his own thing and didn't know of the nasty crap Delita was himself doing.

Had Ramza known what Delita was doing, however.... I think there's a very good chance he, or Agrias, would have personally paid King Delita a visit. And despite Delita's threat at Zeltennia's Church, there is - in my opinion - almost no chance he could have killed Ramza in combat.


I'm not trying to downplay his success, he was very successful. There was no one with any political power in Ivalice left beside him. Moreover the High Confessor only started his plotting because he and the other holy men already felt the church was holding less and less power.

That the church was able to recover at all, moreover hold such dominion that Orran could be arrested, burned at the stake, his words quieted and Ramza would still go down as heretic is almost certainly thanks to King Delita rather then in spite of him.
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When you've got a pretty-boy monkey on your back constantly calling you a puppet, you hardly want to seem like you're happy to be used. - DSakaCharanJ
#50styrrrPosted 5/17/2013 10:11:29 AM
MarquessLaus posted...
I'm not trying to downplay his success, he was very successful. There was no one with any political power in Ivalice left beside him. Moreover the High Confessor only started his plotting because he and the other holy men already felt the church was holding less and less power.

That the church was able to recover at all, moreover hold such dominion that Orran could be arrested, burned at the stake, his words quieted and Ramza would still go down as heretic is almost certainly thanks to King Delita rather then in spite of him.


I agree. King Delita, ex-Holy Knight, was definitely working with the Church to get stuff done behind the scenes. Orran simply got in the way of Delita's perfect image and didn't keep his head down.

I think Delita liked the Church though - once he was King - as they helped control the masses. "Ramza the Heretic" is certainly thanks to Delita as you say...
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