My list of problems with Civ 5 (sorta a review)

#1siuchePosted 9/26/2010 1:14:56 AM
Well, I'm not gonna write a full review, but here's my complain after playing Civ 5 for a few days now.

What I like about Civ 5:
1) No more stack of doom. Actually, I like that, it's nice to plan a bit with the fights instead of just rushing in with a huge stack all the time.
2) Hexagon map. It's pretty nice to have to face more fronts on each tile, more planning again.
3) Embarking. Finally! I don't need to build myself a ship to transport people across water! NICE!

Complains about Civ 5:
1) Strategic Resource Issues! Frankly, it's quite imbalanced. I understand in real world we don't have the luxury of having everything nearby, so I'm not asking for resources to be littered everywhere. But considering that strategic resources that is crucial to development of the country, you only need to choke the resource locations and your opponents will never be able to get the advanced tech to overpower you, now that's where it's imbalanced! All they have to do is to put more strategic resources on the map or even have more of those appear on the map over time, then case solved! But instead, we're stuck with a few oil spills over a single-tiled island, or running through a whole continent and not even able to bump into a single spot of aluminum, coal, and oil, WHILE the resource is being held by a few Civs who refuse to trade no matter what. (And they're too advanced to beat with the little crossbow against their mechs)

2) Workers Issues: Okay, pioneering is tough, it took me like 9 turns to construct a road. Then after road's done I need another 19 turns to upgrade it to railroad, AFTER my tech tree has advanced so far ahead that I even have nanotech ready!? Shouldn't the workers work faster with tech advancements? Or at the least, the social policies aren't really help with this issue and there are no wonders that I can build to speed things up!

3) Maintenance Fee: Most of the city improvements requires maintenance fees, with roads / railway costing 1 / 2 per tile, things really add up! In addition to that, I'm suppose to pay for the army I build to protect my home as well. So it seems the dev wants us to play differently than before, sure! But problem is, the computer AI is still playing it like Civ 2 where they'll litter the map with tiny cities everywhere and try to run you over! Don't see them having a problem with unhappy cities. (it seems that AI will ALWAYS take this route to victory)

4) Annex / Puppet is not an option: When you finally defeat a city, you get the annex/puppet/burn down options. Nice, right? Not really. The Puppet-Cities will go crazy with building stuff that requires maintenance! That means, either I annex the city, which will generate a lot of unhappiness, which slows my progress, or I can let it be a puppet-city where they'll go crazy and my treasury dries up quickly, or the most logical option left, burn them down.... Is that what the devs want?

5) HUGE cut from previous Civ contents. No City View! (Not even your capital....) No more palace building, no more tech tree completion video, no more space craft building animation scene, even some of the wonder's video is missing! Oh and the advisors? They look the same regardless of the era, unless Civ 4 (I think it was Civ 4?)

6) Memory issues: You know how the game would center on whatever's happening or the piece that you are controlling automatically? That is a good thing ONLY when the map is small. Trying to play on the huge map (try Earth Map), you'll be flying all over the world every turn and every move that you make. Results? Not only it's confusing at times to jump around without choice, but the auto-centering ate up so much memory that eventually the game will freeze. Oh, did I mention that YOU CANNOT TURN OFF THIS FUNCTION! So be prepared to reset the game and lose a few turns at late game all the time.
#2AzaneAzerPosted 9/26/2010 1:31:04 AM
my experience has been different at the emperor level, I havent seen a computer go past 4 or 5 cities, besides conquered ones, nowhere near as bad as Expansion civs in Civ 4,
I usually was able to be done with workers by the time I had my 3rd or 4th building in a city, so I didnt have many problems with them being slow, as far as road/railroads, I tend to make 1 road through my civ, with branches off to cities that arent coastal, the maintenance/build time never gets too bad, and I can still use it as a war highway.
building maintenance, I found myself making choices based on the maintenance, a feeling I havent had too severely since Civ1, I didnt need to make a theater, and a museum when Im not focusing on a culture win, or I would keep my happiness balanced, since I found golden ages to be worth less and less as the game advanced.
#3randomdude360Posted 9/26/2010 1:35:09 AM

From: siuche | #001
you only need to choke the resource locations and your opponents will never be able to get the advanced tech to overpower you, now that's where it's imbalanced!


1 It was the same in Civ 4 though, often oil and aluminium was rare and you had to rush in early as possible with settlers to capture it if it wasnt in your borders. I've had no trouble doing that in Civ V, actually I like it because it encourages resource wars. Think about it, in a game where all powers are trying to win, would YOU supply your rivals with oil crucial to their development? I know I wouldn't.

2) I hadnt really noticed. That seems like an exaggeration but I'm not going to call you a liar. 19 turns does sound a bit much

3) Some Civs are like that (I always have a problem with the Aztecs for instance) But many Civs (India, Eqypt) don't seem to be that aggressive. Its not too difficult to farm gold with trading posts I have found.

4) Thats a good thing. Think about it, you're making three , actually difficult choices, two of which will tax your empire in different ways. You just have to choose which burden you would rather carry. In time I think you're supposed to annex the puppets once everythings back on track, its not supposed to be permanent. (But it can be if you wanted)

5) Would have been nice but I don't really miss it. The only part of the game I do miss was use of agents in Civ 4 (Corporations, spies, missionaries etc

6) Agree. Hope they do something about that one.
#4AuspexAOPosted 9/26/2010 2:19:46 AM
Just played a cultural game with Eygpt (just had one city and focused on wonders and great people) and Dublin was really pissing me off with maintenance fees (those Irishmen wouldn't stop building expensive buildings!) I solved the problem by having my workers build as many trading posts as they could in Dublin's cultural region.

Even though you can't directly control your city states you can control their improvements because the land is considered yours. So just give them lots of gold-based improvements and the AI will farm the gold for you :P

I miss the videos too. However, I ended up skipping the videos after two or three games so it makes since that they wouldn't want to waste massive amounts of money on eyecandy that's not actually gameplay related.

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"It's too late to correct it," said the Red Queen: "when you've once said a thing, that fixes it, and you must take the consequences"
#5sifer2Posted 9/26/2010 4:04:12 AM
I agree on number 4 especially. It's a major pain trying to conquer an AI cause in my experience they do like to spam cities. At least in my current game on Prince they are. Annex is fail as it will likely cripple my empire with unhappiness instantly. Courthouse is pretty damn expensive on maintenance an will take a while to build. Puppet is just as bad. You have no control but have to pay the bills. I don't know how they thought that would be a good game mechanic. They never stop building crap you probably don't need but will have to pay for. End result it really does seem like a good idea to just take the unhappiness hit an burn the useless cities to the ground.

An yeah it sucks they cut out a lot of the cinematics an other fluff. Hopefully they patch some of that in over time or in expansions. Another fluff thing is that Trading Posts look horrible. Why would you make something that ugly something that needs to be built all over the place? Cottages were better looking.
#6StringerboyPosted 9/26/2010 4:13:25 AM

I just hate how overly aggressive the AI can be. I was doing pretty well having built 4 cities and bulding up my resources, army etc, and then out of nowhere Ceaser decides to declare war on me! Lost 3 cities and had to start again. Very annoying.

#7siuche(Topic Creator)Posted 9/26/2010 9:50:26 AM
BTW, I think I recall seeing the dev said they're more transparent with diplomatic situations with Civ 5, right? Well, just how are we suppose to tell if the other countries would even talk to us or would even want to discuss with us when there's not a single number to show how upset or how friendly they are? (Or maybe it's just random numbers anyways so they don't show us the figures?) That is soooo frustrating!
#8Lord BladePosted 9/26/2010 10:11:37 AM
1) No more stack of doom. Actually, I like that, it's nice to plan a bit with the fights instead of just rushing in with a huge stack all the time.

Yeah, so instead of attacking with a few stacks of 3-5 units, I now attack with 5-10 units, which can't stack, so are constantly getting in each others way. Instead of just clicking somewhere, and knowing all my units will eventually get there, I basically have to move each one individually each turn, because their auto-move gets canceled when another unit moves through a spot they planned on moving to.

The actual combat isn't much different. You toss units at each other until one side wins.
Some units, probably fortified, will hold off huge armies alone. Just as in Civ IV.

Main difference now, is that the AI is incredibly stupid when it comes to combat.
It won't melee attack archers, instead just sitting there getting shot.
It will pick a unit to attack, and run towards it, ignoring all other units in the area (which lets your ranged units slaughter it as it runs the gauntlet).
It will attack a low strength unit at full life, which it has no chance of beating, and ignore a high strength unit with 1 HP left that it could easily kill. And that lets you easily set up the gauntlet. Put a couple of archers with a gap between them, and a weak unit like a scout behind them. The AI will move after the scout, and your archers will get to shoot them a few times as they pass.
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#9PNBPosted 9/26/2010 10:12:51 AM

siuche posted...
Well, I'm not gonna write a full review, but here's my complain after playing Civ 5 for a few days now.

What I like about Civ 5:
1) No more stack of doom. Actually, I like that, it's nice to plan a bit with the fights instead of just rushing in with a huge stack all the time.
2) Hexagon map. It's pretty nice to have to face more fronts on each tile, more planning again.
3) Embarking. Finally! I don't need to build myself a ship to transport people across water! NICE!

Complains about Civ 5:
1) Strategic Resource Issues! Frankly, it's quite imbalanced. I understand in real world we don't have the luxury of having everything nearby, so I'm not asking for resources to be littered everywhere. But considering that strategic resources that is crucial to development of the country, you only need to choke the resource locations and your opponents will never be able to get the advanced tech to overpower you, now that's where it's imbalanced! All they have to do is to put more strategic resources on the map or even have more of those appear on the map over time, then case solved! But instead, we're stuck with a few oil spills over a single-tiled island, or running through a whole continent and not even able to bump into a single spot of aluminum, coal, and oil, WHILE the resource is being held by a few Civs who refuse to trade no matter what. (And they're too advanced to beat with the little crossbow against their mechs)

2) Workers Issues: Okay, pioneering is tough, it took me like 9 turns to construct a road. Then after road's done I need another 19 turns to upgrade it to railroad, AFTER my tech tree has advanced so far ahead that I even have nanotech ready!? Shouldn't the workers work faster with tech advancements? Or at the least, the social policies aren't really help with this issue and there are no wonders that I can build to speed things up!

3) Maintenance Fee: Most of the city improvements requires maintenance fees, with roads / railway costing 1 / 2 per tile, things really add up! In addition to that, I'm suppose to pay for the army I build to protect my home as well. So it seems the dev wants us to play differently than before, sure! But problem is, the computer AI is still playing it like Civ 2 where they'll litter the map with tiny cities everywhere and try to run you over! Don't see them having a problem with unhappy cities. (it seems that AI will ALWAYS take this route to victory)

4) Annex / Puppet is not an option: When you finally defeat a city, you get the annex/puppet/burn down options. Nice, right? Not really. The Puppet-Cities will go crazy with building stuff that requires maintenance! That means, either I annex the city, which will generate a lot of unhappiness, which slows my progress, or I can let it be a puppet-city where they'll go crazy and my treasury dries up quickly, or the most logical option left, burn them down.... Is that what the devs want?

5) HUGE cut from previous Civ contents. No City View! (Not even your capital....) No more palace building, no more tech tree completion video, no more space craft building animation scene, even some of the wonder's video is missing! Oh and the advisors? They look the same regardless of the era, unless Civ 4 (I think it was Civ 4?)

6) Memory issues: You know how the game would center on whatever's happening or the piece that you are controlling automatically? That is a good thing ONLY when the map is small. Trying to play on the huge map (try Earth Map), you'll be flying all over the world every turn and every move that you make. Results? Not only it's confusing at times to jump around without choice, but the auto-centering ate up so much memory that eventually the game will freeze. Oh, did I mention that YOU CANNOT TURN OFF THIS FUNCTION! So be prepared to reset the game and lose a few turns at late game all the time.


1) there is an option to turn off biased resources spawning to make them all random if you prefer, but remember bush's bloodthirsty campaign over oil, it is merely simulating the real world.

2)there are wonders and social improvements to make workers work faster, looks like you didn't get any

3)this looks like a bit of a problem yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see it fixed in a patch

4)again, another issue, it can be worked around by using puppet untill you stabilize happiness then anexing, but it is not so easy, then again, maybe this is the whole point of this issue? conquest victories were always the easiest and simplest

5)you didn't really pointed out anything important, every single one of those features I always skiped entirely except for the advisors, the civ2 ones were funny. "We are rich sire! RICH! RICH! RIIICH!"

6) weird, this wasn't a problem at all for me and I have a 2GB DDR2 ram 1.8ghz dual core intel processor 9800GT nvidia video card, which is considered a crap computer nowadays.

#10SirAwesomeXXVIPosted 9/26/2010 11:29:53 AM
I have a huge beef with the expansionist AI (which is pretty much all the Civs). They just litter the map with worthless cities that won't produce anything. Nobody ever has an impregnable, stable empire; just acres of trash (which probably explains why they're always broke.)

The absolute worst is in the beginning of the game, where they spam settlers and plop down right next to your cities and they have the NERVE to tell you to stop settling around their cities!