So how exactly do the classes differ if they are all dps?

#11r7gerrabbitPosted 2/25/2012 8:24:32 AM
MBO-Sephy posted...
One thing to note is that, while the specific roles of tank/heal/damage are gone, people will still need to organize and coordinate. That means any class can perform any role, but you'll need someone to focus on healing, someone to focus on tanking, and someone to focus on damage.

The difference in GW2 is that, at least in theory, any class can do any of these.
Engineer healing, Mesmer tanking, Guardian dpsing...and so on. This makes things less limited when you want to group up to do quests and invade dungeons.


Nobody focuses on healing. Period. Everyone has their self heal and any ale heals are meant to do nothing but basic support. If somone is focusing ln healing in a group than they are doing it wrong.

Same with tanking. If something is focussing one player then it is their responsibility to stay alive. If you get low health another player should come in and take over.
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#12PijinzPosted 2/25/2012 8:46:18 AM
r7gerrabbit posted...
Nobody focuses on healing. Period. Everyone has their self heal and any ale heals are meant to do nothing but basic support. If somone is focusing ln healing in a group than they are doing it wrong.

Same with tanking. If something is focussing one player then it is their responsibility to stay alive. If you get low health another player should come in and take over.


Water tuned Elementalist looks a lot like a designated healer to me. Guardian looks very tanky. How exactly is this different from other MMOs?

So each class has a self heal. That's cool. In DDO you could build most classes with some sort of self heal, and avoid damage rather than soaking it up. The majority of raids would still require a tank and healer. There were occasional BYOH groups done without a designated healer, but this was done for fun and for the challenge. Likewise in WoW there were guilds hell bent on getting through raids using a Rogue or Shaman as a tank; it might work with the right strategy but it's not the intended way to play.

It looks to me like in Guild Wars 2 you have more classes that can spec for healing and tanking, but that those roles are still very much there.

But to answer the original topic, think about this: in WoW a Mage and Rogue were both dps exclusive, but they were very different classes. Go further, a Fury and Arms specced Warrior played very differently, even though they had the same role. There should be enough in the way of unique mechanics to make all the classes different regardless of role.
#13r7gerrabbitPosted 2/25/2012 8:50:55 AM
There is NO dedicated healing in this game. ArenaNet has confirmed this. If you are healing exclueivley in a group then you're a bad player.
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#14PijinzPosted 2/25/2012 9:17:27 AM
r7gerrabbit posted...
There is NO dedicated healing in this game. ArenaNet has confirmed this. If you are healing exclueivley in a group then you're a bad player.

I'm aware of what the devs have said, and I've not seen any evidence so far that it is true. Regardless of the intended group mechanics, how can you be sure that having a designated healer doesn't make dungeons run smoother?
#15PijinzPosted 2/25/2012 9:40:41 AM
Let me rephrase. It is certainly possible to build a character aimed at group healing, for example a water Elementalist. Lets say you were making a party for a dungeon, you had one spot left, and you realised none of the members you already had were capable of a full healing role. In the case that your last member to join was capable of group healing, would you or would you not have a vastly increased chance of success than if you made a group entirely of generalists? Further, based on this, would it or would it not become normal practice for groups to request a designated healer in order to increase their chances of success? In other words, when you have that last spot to fill and you don't already have a healer, is your group going to be saying to you "try to get a healer for the last spot"?

I'm sure it is possible to complete dungeons without a designated healer; it is certainly possible in DDO, and it is probably possible in WoW to some extent. However, would such a thing become standard practice or something only done by specialised groups and players wishing for a challenge? I suspect, much like DDO, that the latter is true.
#16MBO-SephyPosted 2/25/2012 10:04:41 AM
And maybe, just maybe, there's one or more encounters where you'll need a lot of AoE heals to survive.

I like the contradiction though. "If something is focusing a player it's their responsibility to stay alive. If you get low on health another player should take over".

Sounds like tanking and off-tanking to me.
#17LaManoNeraIIPosted 2/25/2012 10:12:42 AM
As far as I understand it, healing in GW 2 is a group effort. Self heals combined with support heals (which everyone has a variety of) collectively keep the group alive. That way you're healing through your classes mechanics.

And tanking has been way too simplified by mainstream themepark MMOs. "Tanking" simply means avoiding damage. In WoW that means one guy gets his face smashed in spamming aggro skills while another guy spams the same two heals on him until there is a dead boss. Here, again, it seems like a group effort. While heavies like Warriors and Guardians can stand there getting their faces smashed in, other classes can still dodge attacks. There's also tons of control skills to avoid and mitigate damage, like walls, barriers, bubbles, slows, etc.

So, GW 2 is really DPS/heals/control. With entire group being responsible for all three and players being responsible for themselves. Rather than the poor tank and healer getting the entire burden of the group's success placed on their shoulders.

And like someone else said, it all sounds good in theory, but whether or not they develop compelling content around it I'll have to wait and see.
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#18Exploding8Posted 2/25/2012 11:36:07 AM

ArghIAmDead posted...
Since there's no tanking and healing mechanic, every class is capable of dps with their own self heals. I'm sure they'd have to be different, but I'm not in the beta so I have no way of finding out on my own.

So for example, in what way does a Guardian differ from a Warrior? What kind of abilities, buffs, or debuffs do they have that makes them different in play **** I'm not asking for anything specific, just a general idea of just how the ****s differ.


With the system the way it is, the way I understand it is that any ****can support, tank, heal, or DPS. The ****you choose just changes how you do each thing, so what kind of a flavor it has. For example a Guardian has a magical flair to its skills and abilities, a necromancer works with the undead, a mesmer uses illusions, etc. The official website has a pretty good run down of each **** with example videos of skills and a run down of what weapons each ****uses. 

So instead of WoW, where your ****dictates your role, its more of like Vindictus, where every ****is basically a DPS ****and you have to look out for yourself (Unless you're evie in which case you can support a bit). Except instead of being stuck only doing DPS you can also modify yourself to assist with healing or buffs and such. 

I'm probably not explaining it well but that's just my impression of the system. 

#19Wyand_VoidbringPosted 2/25/2012 6:04:25 PM
A dungeon in GW2 is a lot more natural in that everyone fights for survival, heals themselves and damage those that damage you. There is no such thing as someone who stands back and throws dedicated heals. There is support, sure. But you are not supposed to be support 100% of time. You need to be doing damage.

Everyone is on their own. You are your own tank/heals/dps. The "aggro" in this game is dynamic, so there can be no official tank. There is no taunting either. There is only damage mitigation.

Group heals are SEVERELY nerfed. You can heal other people, but the effect is so miniscule to other people that it's far, far, far, far, far more efficient for them to use their own self heal, and by standing in the back healing people you are severely gimping your group.

As someone said earlier the water elementalist "looks like a healing class". Elementalists are meant to switch roles DYNAMICALLY. There is no cooldown or anything of the sort. If **** hits the fan then you may switch to water, throw out some support, but as soon as that is done then you will be switching back to damage.
#20darkjedilinkPosted 2/25/2012 6:15:11 PM
Pijinz posted...
r7gerrabbit posted...
There is NO dedicated healing in this game. ArenaNet has confirmed this. If you are healing exclueivley in a group then you're a bad player.

I'm aware of what the devs have said, and I've not seen any evidence so far that it is true. Regardless of the intended group mechanics, how can you be sure that having a designated healer doesn't make dungeons run smoother?


They said there is no such thing as a dedicated healing in GW2. If you haven't seen dedicated healing (which you won't, since weapons skills do damage), you can't say you've seen no evidence it's true.

You've seen no evidence it's false.

As to your question on whether or not it'd make dungeons smoother, of course it wouldn't - dungeons are designed around 5 players doing damage. If one of those players isn't doing damage, it's not going to go smoother.
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