Jon Peters says Thief, Necromancer, and Mesmer need the most work

#21TempestMoonPosted 7/23/2012 7:41:46 PM
I pretty much played nothing but the Thief and Necromancer this past weeekend and felt pretty good. Thief was P/P and I was able to dole out the punishment rather effectively but then ranged characters do seem to have it a bit easier. My Necromancer was a little weak at times but I chalk that up to not really knowing how I wanted to play him so couldn't get a firm handle on any real strategy.
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#22darkace77450(Topic Creator)Posted 7/23/2012 7:44:09 PM
Materious17 posted...
I don't want to know how people were playing the thief in the recent beta to make 'em think thieves sucked. Unlike the other beta events where I played my Human Elementalist exclusively, got her up to 45 and cleared explorable AC multiple times (ghost eater but w/e) with nothing but double daggers. Back then people were saying being in melee was suicide, and people probably still say that today but if someone sat down and thought about what is killing them while they are in melee they can learn how to build against it.

Now my Elementalist spec'd into Earth/Water traits for the toughness, vitality, condition damage and healing power necessary to make being in melee safer. If I wanted to rush in and get downed from one hit and consequently doing no damage vs being able to dance around and survive while doing damage I would spec into Fire and Air and run the double daggers. How running the high damage low survivability traits for ranged attackers is perfectly viable as you are in a low risk zone to begin with. Playing in melee is naturally higher risk and "harder" than the other option but the payout should be its own reward, and trust me, the amount of damage I was able to dish out in just a 2 hit combo was intense.

Keeping that in mind this BWE I decided to try my hand at the Thief since they deleted my precious Elementalist and I learned from my trial and error antics and applied them in sick ways to make my pure melee Sylvari Thief a deadly machine. Dagger/Dagger and Sword/Pistol were my weapon choices (inb4 im insane). Only got to lvl 38 with a AC explorable clear under my belt with her as well (again the Ghost Eater). Spec'd into Shadow Arts and Acrobatics for the toughness, vitality, healing power and boon duration while putting my extra points into Trickery for Condition damage and lower steal cooldown (had extra points since I didn't hit 40).

My major glyphs were based around regenerating initiative when I stealth and steal as well as giving me Might stacks whenever I dodge. This let me do one major thing in battle, Death Blossom spam. The second the fight starts, key positioning allows the D/D Thief to hit multiple targets with the Death Blossom 3 times immediately, first two times then you stealth/steal for the extra initiative needed to hit them all once again. 9 stacks of bleeding is devastating and if you popped the utility skill Haste you applied all of that in under 3 seconds. For elite skills I loved Dagger Storm for massive groups but the Thieves Guild is really useful for solo fights so that is really preference. Could you do all of that as a ranged attacker as well? Perhaps, is it more fun and exciting to do it as melee? You bet!

So yeah, have fun with your melee characters, play your professions how you want just be smart about it. I convinced my brother to try out the greatsword on his boring Longbow ranger and he loved it. He also loved the bonuses for specing into Wilderness Survival, Nature Magic and Beast Mastery. Just remember this game isn't exactly melee friendly but the rewards are ever so juicy.


You're doing it all wrong.

First - You should never, EVER use trait points to increase your survivability. Its DPS or GTFO.

Second - Positioning? Really? You're playing chess when most others are content to complain about how broken their checkers strategies are.

Third - You're putting to much thought into your build. Who needs synergy when you can just mash buttons?

Fourth - By spending trait points to allow faster Initiative regeneration you're effectively cheating. Initiative is supposed to be some shackle from which thieves cannot escape. You're effectively exploiting the game in ways the developers did not intend.

Fifth - Under no circumstances should you ever use the steal ability.

Learn2play noob
#23MechangmenowPosted 7/23/2012 8:04:22 PM
r7gerrabbit posted...
Even the Elementalist can hold up better than Thief.

That's because the elementalist is quite good with dual dagger+ flame build. Lots of damage output and tons of mobility moves.

But I do agree, the thieves that do the most damage against me are always the ones with dual pistols.
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#24Diogo_SkyfusionPosted 7/23/2012 8:43:41 PM
Mesmers have inherent design flaws. Shatters were not reliable, most clones were useless, and the interaction between both was clunky and inelegant. Even worse, Mesmers mechanics do not properly work in PvE/ WvW. Jon plans to improve shatters, Scepter (which he said it was under-developed), make Staff more reliable (so it can attack WvW walls, etc), and clean up the profession's traits, because it was the only profession that did not get the proper clean-up in time for BWE3.

About Necromancers, Jon acknowledged that they had some good builds, but not enough good builds. He wants to add more good traits and buff the underpowered skillsets.

Regarding Thief, Jon warned that many complaints were due to the profession's steeper learning curve, but that it did need work regardless.

That's what I read in the official forums. Not much to do with "listening to the whiny players", really, but more related to real balancing issues and design problems.
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#25CruxisInhibitorPosted 7/23/2012 9:00:48 PM
Didn't play thief, but Mesmer Scepter is nothing but Auto-attack, guard that spawns a useless clone, and a greatsword autoattack that causes confusion every 30 seconds. Other blaring issues i saw stemmed from almost useless utility skills and a busted class mechanic. The concept for the mesmer in GW2 needs a revamp and the profession mechanic, as a result, will need an overhaul.
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#26AMonkeyPosted 7/23/2012 10:11:45 PM
Steal is a garbage mechanic, otherwise thiefs seem fine.
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#27DKPunkSurferPosted 7/23/2012 10:33:21 PM
people who say the necromancer is weak is not using it right in all honest. I played one every beta weekends, and there strength is being very, very hard to kill. also anyone who says there weak isn't using death shroud properly... Life blast does soooo much damage its not even funny. One on one I think its waaaaay to hard to kill a necromancer. If anything I bet when they say they need work they actually mean the need to nerf them a bit. I feel like a tank that's very hard to kill, and a necro shouldn't be that hard as they ware light armor
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#28Strife025Posted 7/23/2012 10:48:25 PM
I found ele way more tanky then necro because they have tons of heals and defensive moves to cycle through.

Problem with necro is most of their options suck except condition build.
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#29WiNGSPANTTPosted 7/23/2012 10:57:15 PM
What's wrong with Mesmer is the entire "illusions" profession set.

Making and shattering clones/phantasms is annoying. It doesn't feel fun. The illusions don't live long enough to ever be worth shattering, and when you DO shatter them, the effects are really weak.

Their actual weapon skills are overall boring, and extra boring because their profession set doesn't augment it in any way, unlike Ranger or Elementalist or Guardian. Exploding your Illusions is shallow and boring.

Mesmer extra skills are also boring with a few tiny exceptions.

I think the problem was in GW1 Mesmers were really unique "trickster" classes. You could interrupt people. You could punish them for doing a specific action or for not doing it. You could slow people, drain their mana, etc.

In GW2, Mesmers are just wand-waving magicians who summon 1-HP clones. There is no feeling of trickery or sabotage, that's the problem.
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#30cyclops247Posted 7/23/2012 11:10:41 PM
It might be just me, but it seemed the Engineer turrets were just terrible in comparison to necro pets and Ranger pet. I did however only test out rifle,thumper, and flame turret, i dunno if the higher tier ones make up for it. Can anyone confirm if they think engineer turrets need some kind of boost?

I did however have a blast with engineer Rifle skills