Is there something I still don't get about Mesmer conditions?

#1linknparkfanPosted 8/31/2012 6:30:44 PM
I feel like there's something wrong with Conditions. 1 stack of Confuse does 90-110 damage....what?? There's a trait that gives Illusions a bleed when they crit....that ticks for 47 damage? Something doesn't seem right here. Is there something I'm missing??? Burning and Confuse do okay damage, but I have had 0 success with Confuse builds (Sceptre is the only one with an actual confuse button aside from Shattering, and the damage doesn't feel competitive at all, even when gimping your Power for Condition/Malice).

Is there something I'm not seeing/speccing/gearing up/doing right????
#2blakenickPosted 8/31/2012 6:44:49 PM
I feel the same way, mesmers appear to be entirely a supportive (stats) type class.

The whole any class fits any role is crap, each class has a very specific role and this influences PvE greatly.

Compare it to like a necromancer, they are able to take out massive groups of mobs in about 5-10 seconds, where as a mesmer would easily take 20-30 seconds to kill one enemy (in their 40's).

If you don't have friends questing with you PvE becomes very long and hard.

I recommend a trait setup along vitality, toughness and condition.

The buffs you provide for your group mean they will smash through things, but you won't ever be the hero as a Mesmer.

There are power and precision type builds, but as a mesmer you lack the AoE needed in multiple enemy situations, which is stupid because your clones are idiots and run around aggroing everything nearby...
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#3linknparkfan(Topic Creator)Posted 8/31/2012 6:56:44 PM
It's just nice to hear someone else have the same concerns as me, and not just, "You suck learn to play your class." =/ No matter how hard I press my button, it will always do "mediocre damage" lol.

Uggh, that's not what I wanted to hear though, but I'm glad to get some feedback. I'm most likely just going to play Warrior (My normal MMO choice, didn't want to pick it here because I wanted something DIFFERENT lol) until they ever take a look at Mesmers. Probably play around with Greatsword/Sword + Pistol before I completely jump ship. Thank goodness for PVP oriented MMO! No leveling ha ha.
#4Demonee-HoPosted 8/31/2012 7:05:00 PM
If you want to do decent condition damage, you simply need to stack the condition damage stat. I've been able to get my bleeds to 82 per tick, and that's a lot of damage when you're able to stack 7-10 bleeds.
#5TheBlueDeathPosted 8/31/2012 7:11:54 PM
Honestly, I'm using a straight mind wrack build and streamrolling.

I have very few issues, PVE or PVP wise.
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#6linknparkfan(Topic Creator)Posted 9/1/2012 1:38:56 AM
Demonee-Ho posted...
If you want to do decent condition damage, you simply need to stack the condition damage stat. I've been able to get my bleeds to 82 per tick, and that's a lot of damage when you're able to stack 7-10 bleeds.


Well.....duh? Lol.

Sarcasm aside, I really am not too familiar with end game damage just yet but 82 per tick is NOT HIGH AT ALL :( I'm mostly speaking PVP btw, but weak damage in PVP definitely translates to PVE as well.

Also a side note about the Condition damage, Condition stat does not scale as fast as Power does for direct damage attacks. I didn't play in Beta but I heard it was nerfed quite a bit, and that's what we now have today. I'm having a hunch that Condition stat was overnerfed =(
#7TuskaiPosted 9/1/2012 5:19:42 PM
I play Condition Damage Mesmer exclusively, and you aren't understanding how Confuse works. Confuse stacks intensity, so with the right traits (Letting yourself shatter and all shatters provide confusion, double confusion on the confusion shatter), Confuse will WRECK people, because confuse lasts for 5 seconds and the damage procs anytime the enemy activates ANY skill, including weapon/healing. It's not useful in PvE because enemies don't attack that rapidly, but i've put down auto attackers in seconds in PvP by just stacking them with 8 Confusion and watching them take 3k damage every time they attack.

Another thing about Condition damage mesmers is they should be using Staff's for all their illusions, since illusions use the Basic attack for the weapon they are spawned with, staff's basic attack, Winds of Chaos, has a 66% Chance to cause Bleed or Burning, and illusions do about 5% power damage, but 100% Condition damage.

Finally, spread how stacks were, because I've seen too many people get stacking wrong. Damaging conditions stack in intensity, which means you can have the same condition on the enemy multiple times, each doing it's own damage and on it's on run out timer, which is why you see intensity condition timers rising up and down constantly, it only shows the timer for the longest running condition, Duration stacks for Boons/Condtions are things with flat Percentages, like Fury's 20% crit chance and Stun's inabliity to act, if you hit someone with a stun while they are stuned, it just adds your stun's length to the current stun.

And as a frame of reference, my full Condition Damage Mesmer can deal 700 damage per Bleed/Burn stack in PvP, so 700 damage per every Illusion I make with a staff, up to 3 illusions, that's a possibly of up to 3500 damage worth of stacks every half second for up to 2 people, since Winds of Chaos will bounce to the nearest target, friend or Foe, that's before any kinds of buffs for condition damage, extra projectile bounces, etc.
#8Crimson PhantomPosted 9/1/2012 5:23:46 PM
Necromancer, mass summons (58, soon i can shift to my actual build which isn't using summons)

scepter / dagger
Staff

scepter / dagger - 2, 5, 4, 3 - switch - staff 2,3,4,5 - f1 - 4 - f1 - 2 - switch - scepter / dagger repeat

massive aoe damage, massive conditions, and things just go splat

when I do events with mass enemies coming I make my two minions explode as I do this for an extra massive aoe damage x2

actually making me consider staying as a summonancer / minionmancer and getting things like summons explode on death (and see if it triggers with bone minion sacrifice)
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#9TuskaiPosted 9/1/2012 5:29:06 PM
Also for some tips in PvP, make sure you're setting your runes properly and have the right amulet equiped, because the one you start with doesn't have any condtion damage on it, and Amulets are where you get most of your stats from regardless of your build.

Don't bother with the Signet that increses condition damage, since it only raises by like, 40, which is okay at level 5, but useless besides it's stun every 40 seconds after level 15, a better use of that slot would be just about any utility skill.

For underwater combat, use your trident and just spam as many clones as you can, since for some reason, Trident clones inflict Confusion and don't bounce like the basic trident song does, and they still attack super fast, and it's not unheard of to easily maintain 9 stacks of confusion on people underwater through clones alone.

If you can apply a lot of confusion at once, aim for rapid attackers and people that rely on quick combos of their skills, like Thief's, since they will kill themselves, and for regular condions, aim for people with low max health first, which is usually casters, since Condition damage is uneffected by armor/toughness, it will rip anyone apart given enough time.
#10ZaishiPosted 9/1/2012 5:32:29 PM
Tuskai posted...
Damaging conditions stack in intensity, which means you can have the same condition on the enemy multiple times, each doing it's own damage and on it's on run out timer, which is why you see intensity condition timers rising up and down constantly, it only shows the timer for the longest running condition, Duration stacks for Boons/Condtions are things with flat Percentages, like Fury's 20% crit chance and Stun's inabliity to act, if you hit someone with a stun while they are stuned, it just adds your stun's length to the current stun.


This is wrong. Burning and Poison only stack in duration, as does regeneration. This is not a misconception, it tells you in game when you hover over the condition/buff under the target. "Stacks in duration." I can get my burning "stack" to over a minute on my guardian in a long fight.