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What did Ultimecia's message actually mean?

#1overphxPosted 6/24/2009 4:41:52 PM
One of her dialogues stated "I WANT you to age me..." in the game. Taken from MinoSpelgud's translation guide on this site. I know his translation is not the actual translation, but consider that if her message appears to be exact the same as in the English version of Dissidia whenever it comes out, then what would you make of her message?

I could be wrong but maybe her message implied that she's ageless and that she wants someone (Squall?) to age her. By what means exactly?

According to the Final Fantasy VIII Ultimania, both sorceresses and humans have the same life spans. If her message is accurate, then it's either that the Final Fantasy VIII Ultimania is not 100% validated (not enough information) or that Dissidia is just a typical non-canonical game.

Some of her other messages are a bit awkward as well:
"Shall we dance?" <- Rinoa asking Squall to dance in FF8.
"I'll be waiting until the time comes" <- Rinoa reflecting Squall's promise in FF8.

I'll try to make a conclusion here. In Final Fantasy VIII, it's known that when Ultimecia possesses a sorceress, she acknowledges everything in the sorceress's mind. That's how she learnt about Ellone and that's how she learnt about Griever. There are many other examples but you get what I mean. So, Ultimecia possessed Rinoa, and she learnt everything about her. Therefore, it's possible that Ultimecia acted as Rinoa on some part (repeating Rinoa's similar messages). Why? It's either because Ultimecia liked something about Rinoa, or she just used these messages against Squall, hoping to nullify his chance on beating herself. Although, Squall didn't respond to such messages, so I'm unsure...
#2Olan17VPosted 6/24/2009 4:58:42 PM
Not really. It's the other way around. Edea states that, in order to protect her mind (info on Ellone), she surrendered her body or soul (don't remember exactly). So even if she possessed a Sorceress, she couldn't access her mind, however the ones being possessed can access hers instead! Ultimecia does seem to be able to read minds or strong emotions, just not when she possesses someone.

She knew about Ellone because the machine Ulty used was based on Ellone's power. It's called "Junction Machine Ellone". She knew about Griever because she somehow read Squall's mind or strong emotions during the final battle, and created the GF right there, based on this thought.
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"I'll make my own FFVIII CGI movie, with blackjack and hookers!"
#3gbarberiPosted 6/24/2009 5:18:50 PM
[[slight spoilers possible]]

One of her dialogues stated "I WANT you to age me..." in the game.

No, according to the guide you mentioned, that line is spoken by Onion Knight to Ultimecia.

If her message is accurate, then it's either that the Final Fantasy VIII Ultimania is not 100% validated

It's put out by the game's developers. Why does it need to be validated?

"Shall we dance?" <- Rinoa asking Squall to dance in FF8.

Rinoa's line is "dance with me." Rinoa is less inviting, and more makes a statement to Squall. Either that, or the developers are trying to fan the flames of that debate again to spur sales of FFVIII.

"I'll be waiting until the time comes" <- Rinoa reflecting Squall's promise in FF8.

She's challenging him to a fight.

I'll try to make a conclusion here. In Final Fantasy VIII, it's known that when Ultimecia possesses a sorceress, she acknowledges everything in the sorceress's mind.

It's a possibility, but then she would have known about SeeD.
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#4ZerokkuPosted 6/24/2009 5:20:59 PM
There's always the theory that Ultimecia = Rinoa in a warped future. While the ultimania says differently, I'm wondering if they changed their mind on that plot point, because Ultimecia's ultimate weapons are named after some of Rinoa's weapons.
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#5overphx(Topic Creator)Posted 6/24/2009 6:54:08 PM
Not really. It's the other way around. Edea states that, in order to protect her mind (info on Ellone), she surrendered her body or soul (don't remember exactly).

True, but I don't think Rinoa did the same way.
Yes, Edea protected her mind that time (during the present days). But she was possessed twice. It's likely that she let her mind loose the first time (from the past when she was younger.)

She knew about Ellone because the machine Ulty used was based on Ellone's power. It's called "Junction Machine Ellone".

If that's the case, why didn't she go after Ellone earlier? She started looking for Ellone after she's finished with Edea the second time.

Ellone left the orphanage earlier (Squall "sis..." moments), do you know why? It's because she was scared of the fact that Edea's mind was exposed to Ultimecia, one part of her mind contains Ellone. Because if Ultimecia knows Edea, she knows Ellone. That's why Ellone ran away.


She knew about Griever because she somehow read Squall's mind or strong emotions during the final battle, and created the GF right there, based on this thought.


I doubt it somehow. That would just complicate the plot even more...

No, according to the guide you mentioned, that line is spoken by Onion Knight to Ultimecia.

Ouch, my mistake then. Didn't quite catch the Onion Knight section... =x

It's put out by the game's developers. Why does it need to be validated?

I meant in terms of the Ultimania not containing enough information. There are so many questions unanswered left ...

Rinoa's line is "dance with me." Rinoa is less inviting, and more makes a statement to Squall. Either that, or the developers are trying to fan the flames of that debate again to spur sales of FFVIII.

I don't think it matters that Rinoa is less inviting. There's a symbolism going on between Rinoa and Squall. She instantly focused on Squall, pulled up her finger at the star, her eyes pointed at Squall and the story begins... She did the same thing to Squall in the end. But really, why did Ultimecia use the same word? Dance... I know it sounds crazy but meh.

She's challenging him to a fight.

I know, but if you compare the lines between Rinoa, Squall (from FF8) and Ultimecia (Dissidia). They all seem so similar.

It's a possibility, but then she would have known about SeeD.

I thought she did. O_o She was just busy trying to rule the world.

There's always the theory that Ultimecia = Rinoa in a warped future. While the ultimania says differently, I'm wondering if they changed their mind on that plot point, because Ultimecia's ultimate weapons are named after some of Rinoa's weapons.

It doesn't make sense, I mean. Ultimecia is on the BAD side, right? There's NO valid reason for her to use the GOOD side weapons (in this case, Rinoa.)
#6Olan17VPosted 6/24/2009 7:39:44 PM
But she was possessed twice. It's likely that she let her mind loose the first time (from the past when she was younger.)

She wasn't possessed twice. Edea was only possessed once, in which she disappeared, then resurfaced in Galbadia, as an ambassador.

If that's the case, why didn't she go after Ellone earlier? She started looking for Ellone after she's finished with Edea the second time.

Ultimecia's whole plot, ever since she managed to possess Edea, was to go after Ellone. She was merely keeping things subtle and undercover. She gained control of Galbadia and later Galbadia Garden, and once her power was established, she began using it to seek Ellone. Galbadia was going from town to town (Balamb, FH ect.) looking for her.

Ellone left the orphanage earlier (Squall "sis..." moments), do you know why? It's because she was scared of the fact that Edea's mind was exposed to Ultimecia, one part of her mind contains Ellone. Because if Ultimecia knows Edea, she knows Ellone. That's why Ellone ran away.

Once again misinformed. Ellone didn't run away. Edea, knowing that Sorceress Ultimecia from the future would come to this time to take Ellone, decided to create SeeD and establish the Gardens thanks to an unknown that gave her the idea. She secretly trained and created personally the White SeeDs, with the sole task of protecting Ellone. This is where Ellone "runs away". Edea sends Ellone with the White SeeDs into a form of exile, so that Ultimecia could never find her.

I doubt it somehow. That would just complicate the plot even more...

The Jap version of the game's dialogue shows this. Ultimecia pulls Griever out of Squall's thoughts and basically gives it life and power. Which is just badass....
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"I'll make my own FFVIII CGI movie, with blackjack and hookers!"
#7final_chancePosted 6/24/2009 7:40:40 PM
I doubt it somehow. That would just complicate the plot even more...

No, this is actually 100% canon. Ultimecia is able to delve into people's minds. She created Griever because in Squall's mind, he was the strongest GF. It was an attempt to strike fear into him.

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"I dare do all that maybe become a man. Who dares do more is none" ~Macbeth~
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#8final_chancePosted 6/24/2009 7:47:12 PM
And just to expand on what Olan said a little bit.

I think you are getting confused with the "possessing". It sounds like you think that Ultimecia possessed Edea back when everyone were still kids at the orphanage, shown at the end of the game. This wasn't a possession. Sorceresses can't die until they pass on their power to another. All Ultimecia did was rid herself of the Sorceress power, which Edea accepted.
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"I dare do all that maybe become a man. Who dares do more is none" ~Macbeth~
PSN ID: FatBeezzee
#9Shadow Flare13Posted 6/25/2009 9:29:19 AM
I'm wondering if they changed their mind on that plot point, because Ultimecia's ultimate weapons are named after some of Rinoa's weapons.


Tidus uses Wakka's weapon names and Kuja uses some of Dagger's (and maybe Vivi's?) weapons. It's really just more of a reference to the game, character, or weapons of the game rather than a significant plot relation. They probably couldn't think of name for Ultimecia's unique weapons and honestly, whose weapons would she use? Zell or Irvine obviously don't make sense. Quistis and Selphie could work, but Rinoa's weapons probably worked best seeing as she's a sorceress herself and an obvious contrast to Ultimecia (black wings vs white wings, for example).
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