Let's mix this up (second playthrough party)

#11ZekuMusashiPosted 5/9/2012 3:27:13 AM
as for team 2, why can't Basch be the White Mage with Libra?

You're somewhat low on offense, what without magic and all, so going for the ol'
WM-steals-while-the-other-two-smash-face routine seemed the best idea.
If the Knight were to part-time steal, your main offense (unless undead) would be a Time Mage. Yeah ... good luck with that lol.
Time Mage Vaan / Fran could steal instead but even a Knight, if (almost) alone, is not likely to be enough.

Question, though, how does Penelo fare as a Samurai vs Ashe?

Level 99 Stats in IZJS, from
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/939426-final-fantasy-xii-international-zodiac-job-system/52876031

- /note that HP and MP gains are subject to randomization -

HP | MP | STR | MAG | VIT | SPD
Vaan
5174 | 632 | 78 | 73 | 61 | 37
Balthier
5036 | 595 | 75 | 63 | 58 | 38
Fran
4810 | 631 | 71 | 68 | 62 | 36
Basch
5224 | 540 | 78 | 63 | 47 | 35
Ashe
4799 | 693 | 73 | 78 | 57 | 36
Penelo
4658 | 714 | 70 | 76 | 60 | 36

Samurai Ashe just so reaches the fabled 99 STR & MAG with Genji Gear, while Penelo (and everyone else) falls short of that goal.
It's not a huge deal if you simply want someone else as a Samurai, but Ashe is pretty objectively the best, I dare say.

Most of my previous playthrough I didn't have protectga or shellga

Shellga I can understand - the Great Crystal is a ***** - but Protectga shouldn't be that hard to get, did you use these?

FFXII IZJS Game Maps by TirpitzLuminare
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/939426-final-fantasy-xii-international-zodiac-job-system/56590242
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4059012/FFXII%20-IZJS-%20Maps%20Complete.zip
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#12Balthier2009(Topic Creator)Posted 5/9/2012 3:55:19 AM
Yes I do use Tirpitz's maps. Haha. Protectga comes pretty late-game, iirc, is what I meant. XD

after some thought, my teams will be:

Knight - Vaan
Archer - Basch
Red Mage - Penelo

and

White Mage - Fran (for steal)
Breaker - Balthier
Time Mage - Ashe

if team 1 feels like it lacks healing I can always bring in the white mage to replace red mage or archer, depending on what the situation demands.

any recommended switchups? Fran or Penelo would make interesting Knights, but I don't think I can stand Vaan as a White Mage or Red Mage. And if it was up to me I'd make Vaan the Time Mage but that would mean ALL stealers would be in Team 2.

Lastly, Esper suggestions please. :D

P.S. The problem of Libra...darn..
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"The leading man never dies" - Ffamran Bunansa
#13ZekuMusashiPosted 5/9/2012 6:52:56 AM
Protectga comes pretty late-game, iirc

The Necrohol is accessible quite early, actually. Now, survivable, that is a different matter entirely but my point stands :P

White Mage - Fran (for steal)
Breaker - Balthier


Hm, do you have something against Fran as a Breaker? She IS the best for the Job, after all. Not by far or anything, but still.

if team 1 feels like it lacks healing

That really shouldn't be the case, full Item Lores with strong Cure / Cura early on, strong Curaja later, Esuna / Cleanse ... I'd say you're good.

And if it was up to me I'd make Vaan the Time Mage but that would mean ALL stealers would be in Team 2.

Archer actually learns Steal naturally.

P.S. The problem of Libra...darn..

Yup.

any recommended switchups? Fran or Penelo would make interesting Knights, but I don't think I can stand Vaan as a White Mage

But his slamming-the-staff-into-the-ground-when-healing animation is both rad and tubular, possibly even gnarly, dude :(
Oh well ... how's this, then?

[A-1]
Vaan - Archer
Fran - Knight
Penelo - Red Mage

[A-2]
Balthier - White Mage
Basch - Breaker
Ashe - Time Mage

Basch deals the ultimately worst Breaker damage though with the damage formula valuing STR more, he'll still do decently.
Actually, low VIT is preferable [hit-chance-wise] if you plan on casting Berserk / Decoy / [also duration ->] Reverse on him a lot, heh.

Or:

[B-1]
Fran - Archer
Penelo - Knight
Ashe - Red Mage

Fran sadly isn't the best Archer but on pilfering duty, her attacks don't matter as much, anyway. Plus, style points :P
I prefer Knight Ashe but if you like Penelo's Greatsword animations, go for it.

[B-2]
Balthier - White Mage
Basch - Breaker
Vaan - Time Mage

There ya go, TM Vaan :)

And just because, an alternative that shouldn't do too horribly:

[C-1]
Vaan - Time Mage
Fran - Monk
Ashe - Samurai

I already brought this up before, but seriously, it's a quirky (i.e. fun in my book) combo that somehow actually works, heh.
Yay Shades of Black to fall back on if physical-heavy doesn't work out too well :P

[C-2]
Balthier - Knight
Basch - Archer
Penelo - Red Mage

Not too grand healing from the Knight but worst case, you could always keep Faith up I guess? Pretty solid, otherwise.

Holding off on Espers until your party is finalized :P
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#14Balthier2009(Topic Creator)Posted 5/9/2012 8:18:02 AM(edited)
@WM Vaan, does he seriously do that? :O

iirc, Balthier raises a hand when he casts spells, and so does Ashe as BM. I assume that's how it is with everyone. If he does that then I might consider WM Vaan.

@Breaker Fran

none, but She has average enough stats to fit in pretty much any leftover job. The issue there was just that I didn't want Balthier to be a White Mage again. And since anyone can reach 99 str as a breaker I just thought he would be an okay Breaker (better than Basch tho not as good as Fran).


Team 2 is a bit difficult to fix, huh. WM Basch should have been fine but that means he won't be stealing. Same if Penelo was WM (yes, yes, one-sided, I know, but huge numbers are always cool be it healing or damaging). Team 2 should've been fine except for the Libra thing, so I guess I've no choice but to make him WM. He'll have low MP, though, so I'll cross my fingers and hope that won't be a problem. Not to mention, Basch and the Time Mage will be sharing the Breaker's MP for Syphoning.

Basch aside (who is unable to be the Archer), the Breaker can steal but that might take too long (I usually just set HP=100% Steal and attack for the others) before the action starts. Option 2 is the stealing Time Mage, where s/he would be doing probably nothing in battle anyway but attack, rebuff, and maybe heal part-time.

Option 1-a:

Knight - Fran
Archer - Ashe
Red Mage - Penelo

White Mage - Basch
Breaker - Balthier
Time Mage - Vaan

lol gender-based teams. Everyone here fit nicely, tho Ashe was the afterthought since no one else in Team Estrogen is as good an Archer. Not to mention her Cura will be better. Team Testosterone seems pretty flexible as to the stealing problem. I can always try out which one Steals best.

Option 1-b:

Knight - Balthier
Archer - Vaan
Red Mage - Penelo

White Mage - Basch
Breaker - Fran
Time Mage - Ashe

pretty much the same as Option 1, except this one is not separated by gender. Awww. Well at least Vaan and Penelo will be in the same team, and so will Basch and Ashe. Balthier as Knight will be one-sided, though (and in this case turning him monk is an option) , but at least Breaker and Time Mage are pretty optimal.

Option 1-c:

Knight - Penelo
Archer - Ashe
Red Mage - Vaan

White Mage - Basch
Breaker - Balthier
Time Mage - Fran

again, same concept except for a few switches. Penelo as Knight means awesome greatswords and better-than-decent heals, while Vaan seems to be the only male capable of being a decent Red Mage, it seems. I'd make Fran the Breaker but...Balthier as Time Mage?

Option 2:

Knight - Fran
Archer - Balthier
Red Mage - Penelo

White Mage - Vaan
Breaker - Basch
Time Mage - Ashe

lol too bad a Sky Pirate Team is impossible since the other Team can't steal (unless it's an archer). But since later on (post-XII) Penelo kinda becomes Vaan's "Fran" this is as close as it gets. Do you have a video of Vaan's healing animation? XD

anyway, my issue here is the huge gap between Basch's Vit and Ashe's, who supposedly has the next lowest Vit. I usually associate Vit with bulk in games but apparently in XII it only affects buffs and axes/hammers/handbombs. Otherwise, Vaan would be an okay stealing WM and Ashe is the Time Mage. Team 1 requires little explanation, I believe?

EDIT:darn...Balthier's Archery problem. Oh well (for that option, at least)

Option 2-b

Knight - Balthier
Archer - Vaan
Red Mage - Penelo

White Mage - Fran
Breaker - Basch
Time Mage - Ashe

that's as close as I get to fixing option 2.


All of them are pretty decent options, i think. But tbh my bias is towards the gender-based ones. Lol. XD
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"The leading man never dies" - Ffamran Bunansa
#15ZekuMusashiPosted 5/9/2012 10:36:43 AM
@WM Vaan, does he seriously do that? :O
iirc, Balthier raises a hand when he casts spells, and so does Ashe as BM.


It makes a difference whether you're in "combat mode" - i.e. weapon(s) drawn - or not. Nobody swings a weapon to heal in "peace times".
Monk (and BM) Vaan does the same so you should have already seen it (and/or I might have oversold it), actually.

On 1-c: Red Mage without Cure (lol undead) just irks me, not sure if 2x Cure without mage equips / licenses is enough to compensate.
TM Balthier is really not worth the slight damage boost for the Breaker.

2-b seems overall the best, though the on the whole not-that-big-a-deal attack delay
for Archer Balthier in 2-a shouldn't keep you from using that party if you prefer it. IMO.

Heck, if 1-a seems like the most fun to you, just go for it.
Maybe keep the guys a bit higher in level / let the other team live out their kleptomaniac tendencies more,
but really, I doubt that you'd reach a point where even "Team Testosterone" would simply be outclassed regardless.
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#16Balthier2009(Topic Creator)Posted 5/9/2012 7:04:14 PM
Well Option 1-a may not be optimal but it's definitely interesting. I'll go with that. XD

Espers, then? :D
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"The leading man never dies" - Ffamran Bunansa
#17ZekuMusashiPosted 5/10/2012 2:53:42 AM(edited)
As always, thanks go to Job Summaries and Esper-Locked Ability Lists
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/939426-final-fantasy-xii-international-zodiac-job-system/52876031

Belias
- Breaker: Horology (flyer hitting and AoE, if you're patient / lucky it's actually pretty good damage)

Mateus
- Knight: Esuna, Cleanse, Curaga, Regen

Adrammelech
- Time Mage: Cura, Raise

Zalera
- Breaker: Traveler
- Time Mage: Ether Lore 3
You can (ab)use Traveler for massive damage, so unless you just don't want to bother with it (like me lol), get that.
There's always Syphon / non-maxed-Ether chugging, after all.

Shemhazai
- White Mage: +230 HP
(Heavy Armor does have some appeal for a non-Basch / Vaan Archer but then you'd have 3x Heavy and 0x Light Armor ... meh.)

Cuchulainn
- Red Mage: Fira-, Thunda-, Blizza-, Sleepga

Exodus
- Knight: +350 HP

Zeromus
- White Mage: +270 HP

Hashmal
- Knight: Confuse, Faith, Bravery, Curaja

Famfrit
- Archer: +825 HP

Chaos
- White Mage: +310 HP, Greatswords 2
(woot 3x HP buffed WM with Defender for great justice)

Ultima
- Breaker: Swiftness
- Knight: Telekinesis, Battle Lore
Telekinesis comes pretty much too late to be used on anything that RM + Archer can't handle, so yay faster smashing.

Zodiark
- Time Mage: Swords 9
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#18Balthier2009(Topic Creator)Posted 5/10/2012 2:59:44 PM
Thanks, Zeku!

I've already started the game. As of the time I finished I beat Rocktoise after the Dreadnought Leviathan.

Time Mage Vaan is actually an okay character. He's actually one of the strongest damage dealers in my early game team. Having disable and immobilize is also cool against mobs (foe: count >= 3). My only issue is his godawful accuracy when outdoors, specifically the lhusu mines. He's also pretty fast. He's my stealer since he attacks too fast for breaker balthier to steal all the HP = 100% monsters before Vaan can attack them. Too bad I wanted him to keep his distance but oh well.

Breaker Balthier started out sort of bad, when he had weapons that nearly match the other weapons' attack powers. He dealt 5-90 damage when others dealt 60. Not exactly a good average. But now that his weapon is roughly 10 above the others, the average is way better.

Ashe as Archer definitely gets style points for me. Lol. She weilds her bow with flair. Unfortunately, her damage is pretty low and I can see that being a problem later on. She deals 170 damage when Fran with swords deal 250 and Vaan and Balthier deal 330 damage on average. Fortunately, she looks so good that I ignore the damage anyway. XD

and Penelo, well, she uses a mace the same way she uses a dagger, so I was a little disappointed. But she'll be using damage anyway. :)
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"The leading man never dies" - Ffamran Bunansa