Reroll #3 & Class Role Discussion!

#1stimuzPosted 8/7/2012 5:08:16 PM
Long story short, killed first esper... regretted having a monk, red mage, knight and white mage though I was facerolling everything. I found zero use for my white mage in that case.

So that got me thinking, why not roll a red mage + black mage + breaker team with knight(gotta check zodiacs again, was going with a samurai when I checked) archer and TIME MAGE on standby. I try to breakdown each classes roles but I'm not experienced enough to be sure.

So here is my take on the classes, please correct me if I'm wrong. That's actually the point of the thread :P

Hunter - Role: Tank/Speed?/DPS?
I've looked through the abilities availible to this class many times. I can't see where this fits in even though I've heard other players opinions on this class. I suppose if you cheese an early gladius it can be powerful, but late game I assume it falls off? No breaks, high evasion, mediocre damage(so I hear) with a very, very powerful early game. Am I pretty far off?

Breaker - Role: Tank/Debuffer/DPS
Brings every break to the team allowing for more build freedom, but pairs badly with monk archer or uhlan due to the redundancy of breaks in addition to breaks being the primary purpose of this class. Genji gear is a big plus in my book! Unlocking shades of black does not seem to be a worthwhile sacricice so that's a pretty big con. Otherwise this is probably the best meatshield for a caster team... I think?

Monk - DPS/Offtank/Heals/Support/Breaks/Some Nukes
This class seems to cover nearly everything, yet for some reason I find it very boring. I can't figure out why. Could be the stage of the game I'm in, I really only have auto attack.

Knight - Tank/DPS/Support/Heals
Probably my favorite melee class. Early access to cure due to the ideal classes (Ashe/maybe Penelo?) and in my last playthrough I got a lucky golden armor drop in the second town. I probably should have sold it, facerolled my way till I got bored. To me, this class kills White Mages #1 use - Faith/Bravery as well as having access to the 2nd best heal(I think?) AND from what I understand, the DPS is around the same as a Samurai if you run Genji + a high end sword.

Samurai - DPS?
I've tried many times to fit this into my groups but I just don't fully understand the potential and/or use of this class over Knight. Is the DPS superior? Is the offensive casting good throughout the game? Would you run this if you did not have access to Brave or Faith? For me the answer is no, but I could be(and probably am) wrong.
#2stimuz(Topic Creator)Posted 8/7/2012 5:08:32 PM
Archer - Role: DPS?
I've played through with archer twice and still don't know what this class does that stands out. The item lores are great, the access to spells and shades of black has me confused as I was advised against using either. I'm guessing even a female archer cannot reach the required int to make it work? This one I need some info on! Also how does this class stand out late game without the godly 200+ atk bow compared to other classes?

Machinist - Role: ???
I tried machinist last playthrough. I actually enjoyed it but the board really confused me. There are magic lores(7) and I just don't see what this class can use them for. Is it just the time magic? Most of the time magicks available seem to be ally targeted. I'm also curious how this class stands vs the rest with an Aldebaran Y vs other Ult(non-godly) weapons DPS wise. Does the armor penetration close the gap at all?

Time Mage - Role: Support/DPS/...Tank?
I've not tried time mage yet but I have heard bad things about it. At the same time, I do want to try it for early and frequent access to haste without the need to farm. Heavy armor sounds sexy as does access to some of the better 1h swords in the game. I'm assuming they have low health and evasion but they do bring addle and shear which could POSSIBLY make a triple(black+red+time)mage team viable through most of the game. Again, I'm probably wrong, but I'm willing to give it a try!

White Mage - Role: Support
I can't see a reason to bring this class unless you skip running any two of the following: Knight/Monk/Red Mage, possibly even Time Mage! Knight having access to bravery and faith kills this class for me.

Red Mage - Melee DPS/Spell DPS/Heals/Buffer
This class made me immediately regret going WM on Fran. It kind of blew me away to see how superior this class was to WM if you have a Knight as well. HUGE early game spell library, great DPS, dark damage, access to high level spells from black magic. HUGE melee damage at least at the stage of the game I was at, much higher HP than my WM as well + shield. Probably the best class in the game in my opinion.

Black Mage - Spell DPS
I haven't tried this class yet and was advised against red + black mage, but I'm going to give it a shot anyway. Seems to me that with how comprehensive gambits are in this game I could simply have both mages spam into vulnerable mobs for sick AoE damage. I looked at the skill set for this class and my first thoughts were "wow this is just a crappy red mage" but what I didn't notice were the 50% elemental mods on staves. That alone makes me want to give it a try.
#3ZekuMusashiPosted 8/7/2012 6:19:09 PM
White Mage - Role: Support
I can't see a reason to bring this class unless you skip running any two of the following: Knight/Monk/Red Mage, possibly even Time Mage!

It's pretty simple, you use a White Mage in one team to (masterfully) cover healing / buffing there, and use (some of) the rest in the other.
Being able to use every White Magic ASAP is pretty damn neat in my book, lol @ Knight getting Curaja when the game is pretty much over.
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#4ArchiantagonistPosted 8/7/2012 7:03:46 PM(edited)
You forgot Uhlan - who is the best damage dealer in this game IMO but it's NBD))

Hunter - You basically spelled it all yourself. Tanking + OP with early "sweets"
+ can deal good damage to darkness-weak foes late in the game(Ultima, Yiazmat etc).

Breaker - Again, you're right for the most part. Debilitating + somewhat tanking
Breaker is not necessarily goes bad with other jobs who have breaks though
Example Breaker and Uhlan in one party. Uhlan can get access to breaks with 2 Espers.
With Breaker around he doesn't need any, so you can use those Espers to raise the efficiency of other folks in the party.

Monk - Never really liked them so got not much to say honestly.
I know Zeku loves them with RMs(functionality and all), but I don't...

Knight - Once again you got the gist of it. Decent damage + great support + tanking
+ great undead slayer late in game(Excalibur and/or White Magic). Overall VERY useful

Samurai - I think this job was ruined for me by it's praiser on the internet. I mean the job is ok and with certain set-ups even great,
but it depends on certain equipment to really shine and this equipment is not so early obtainable(Masamunes + Genji stuff)

Archer - is a pure phys.damage dealer(though decent at best if you ask me).
As for the godly bow(Seitengrat I assume) it can be used by any char in the game regardless of the job so...

Machinists - I personally don't like them...at all, but Infiny posted some stuff in the other topic
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/939426-final-fantasy-xii-international-zodiac-job-system/63596222

White Magic - I think you're underestimating them. They are VERY useful throughout the game. It all comes down to how you will arrange your gambits in the party. I mean why waste time healing with Knight or Monk when WM is around. Plus, WM got their ways of handling undeads pretty quickly.

Time Mage - Buffing + Status inducing with different crossbow shafts
I personally like this job, even though I'm not sure why...they just seem to be fun to use I think

Red Mage and Black Mage - I got nothing to say. Any magic offense(aside from White Magic evaporating the undead foes)
is outside of my model of playing this game
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#5stimuz(Topic Creator)Posted 8/7/2012 9:14:54 PM
It's pretty simple, you use a White Mage in one team to (masterfully) cover healing / buffing there, and use (some of) the rest in the other.
Being able to use every White Magic ASAP is pretty damn neat in my book, lol @ Knight getting Curaja when the game is pretty much over.


Oh, I didn't know you got it that late. Assume it would be around level 40 or 50 or something.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/939426-final-fantasy-xii-international-zodiac-job-system/63596222


Yeah, I could be underestimating them.

Monk - Never really liked them so got not much to say honestly.
I know Zeku loves them with RMs(functionality and all), but I don't...


Yeah, I don't like monk either, can't figure out why. Maybe hitting people with a stick isn't as fun as cutting them up.

Time Mage - Buffing + Status inducing with different crossbow shafts
I personally like this job, even though I'm not sure why...they just seem to be fun to use I think


I feel the same way, definitely going to check them out. Do you think the late game swords are worth using on them?
You forgot Uhlan - who is the best damage dealer in this game IMO but it's NBD))


Ah, you're right! I actually know nothing about Uhlan other than phys breaks. Does Uhlan outdamage Genji gear Samurai and/or Knights... possibly breakers? What are your thoughts on the top damage dealers in the game? Does it vary greatly between early-mid-late game?
#6ArchiantagonistPosted 8/7/2012 9:52:58 PM(edited)
stimuz posted...
What are your thoughts on the top damage dealers in the game? Does it vary greatly between early-mid-late game?


Damage output depends on many factors, such as what char has this certain job,
what weapons do you have/use or what particular enemies you fight atm...

but for the most part of the game I'd say

1) Uhlan - best single-hitting damage in the game
2) Knight - he hits not as often as Uhlan, but when he does it's usually hard...initially can't hit fliers though
3) Hunter - perhaps it's only cos' you can get his nasty toys so early, but since it's so easy - why not to?
4) Archer - good damage that hits everywhere
5) Samurai - He can top everyone but he need the tools for that
6) Monk - perhaps I'm a bit unfair, but... oh well
7) Everyone else

As for magic attackers idk...and honestly idc

PS: as for late swords for Time Mage I think they are mostly just for fun,
but since I value the fun the most in VGs for me it's defly worth it.
Though it depends on who else do you have in the party and weather or not
you will have an Esper-conflict for that matter.
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#7stimuz(Topic Creator)Posted 8/7/2012 10:26:09 PM
Archiantagonist posted...
stimuz posted...
What are your thoughts on the top damage dealers in the game? Does it vary greatly between early-mid-late game?


Damage output depends on many factors, such as what char has this certain job,
what weapons do you have/use or what particular enemies you fight atm...

but for the most part of the game I'd say

1) Uhlan - best single-hitting damage in the game
2) Knight - he hits not as often as Uhlan, but when he does it's usually hard...initially can't hit fliers though
3) Hunter - perhaps it's only cos' you can get his nasty toys so early, but since it's so easy - why not to?
4) Archer - good damage that hits everywhere
5) Samurai - He can top everyone but he need the tools for that
6) Monk - perhaps I'm a bit unfair, but... oh well
7) Everyone else

As for magic attackers idk...and honestly idc

PS: as for late swords for Time Mage I think they are mostly just for fun,
but since I value the fun the most in VGs for me it's defly worth it.
Though it depends on who else do you have in the party and weather or not
you will have an Esper-conflict for that matter.


My current setup has minimal esper conflict, at least nothing that I think I'll regret. I'm probably missing something, but why is Uhlan so powerful when they have low combo chance?
#8ZekuMusashiPosted 8/8/2012 1:55:25 AM
why is Uhlan so powerful when they have low combo chance?

Because this is IZJS, where the removal of the damage cap means that you don't need combo-heavy weapons to stay competitive.
You can read the first part King Leonidas style if you wanna.

BTW, Breaker should be somewhere up there, as well - random damage be damned, it still averages to above decent and Scorpion Tail F
- which BTW can be gotten as soon as your first (story) visit to Henne Mines - with Genji Gloves (also Helmet / Armor) is pretty sick.
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#9ArchiantagonistPosted 8/8/2012 2:33:55 AM
ZekuMusashi posted...
...


agree
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#10stimuz(Topic Creator)Posted 8/9/2012 12:12:59 AM
So, here's an update: I went with Vaan as Breaker, Fran Red Mage, Balthier Black Mage and am planning on having Ashe as Samurai(or Knight), Penelo as Uhlan but I'm stuck on what to make Basch.

SO FAR, Breaker feels like a good all around tank. No breaks yet, but hes my 100% HP = steal bot with really nice blocking and random, but fun damage.

Red Mage is doing what it always does, which is everything.

Black Mage has the staff of flames from the ghost you can phoenix down, his fire is obviously tearing stuff up. I think I may enjoy this class a lot more than I expected.

I mostly want to see the damage on Uhlan and like Penelos animation. Am I right in assuming I will eventually reach 99 STR with any heavy armor class?

Samurai vs. Knight is again one of my biggest holdups. With my current team comp I'm thinking Knight, but if I made Basch a White Mage I assume Samurai would be better? I'd certainly be pretty light on leather wearers though so I may just go with Knight. Can a late game Genji geared Breaker come anywhere near a Samurai in damage? If so, I'd probably lean towards Knight for more utility.

Now, I really haven't seen an answer to this in any threads yet: Machinist vs Archer vs Hunter DPS wise. I want a level 3 remedy lore user to abuse that acc that reverses effects. Of the 3 which does the most damage early game/mid game/late game? I'm not looking to become SUPER overpowered late game(though I might want that for trial?) but how do these classes stack up against each other max geared, assuming they were competing over a DPS spot?

Will Machinist Hastaga ever come in handy to keep 100% uptime on hastaga or will I easily stumble upon a bunch of motes that I can use even outside of boss battles? Is there an attack speed limit? If so, I assume the dagger wielding hunter would easily reach it with haste.