I just started Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney...

#31InfectedgloryPosted 10/5/2012 8:09:53 PM
krazykillerkow posted...

You know i've heard a lot of different arguments about the plot holes in Apollo Justice, but outright saying anyone who calls them out ''are just freaking pathetic'' is definitely a new one. Spirit channeling is an established fact of the fictional Phoenix Wright universe. Blind kids suddenly gaining super strength is not.

There is no such thing as "established fact" of the "Phoenix Wright universe". New things are added that fit to each new game's writers new story. It happens with every franchise of book, movies, tv shows, and games. Since when where there a "power" of sensing people tensing up? Since when does hiring an assasin somehow make you a murderer instead of an accessory to murder?

And the most logical explanation that I've heard is that Klavier has said they needed to get the case done as soon as possible, hell he didn't even want to tell Lamiror of the incident. With Machi being the only likely suspect (the fingerprints, the only child, the only one without an alibi, plus Klavier knowing he wasn't blind) just adds up. Of course the gun thing is a huge contradiction too but Klavier could possibly just ignore that like all the other prosecutors ignore things to keep up their story.
Or Machi could've been trained for it. Highly unlikely but a "possibility" for Klavier to fall back on when needed. Certainly not much to get so many fans who aren't willing to think a little further in a series meant for thinking stuff over to get their panties in a twist.

kwando1313 posted...


Wait, there's an amazing post about every bad plot hole in 4-4... Let me find a link...

Here: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/930506-apollo-justice-ace-attorney/59068122

This is why 4-4 is so frustratingly bad. And I'll add a few more of my own reasons.
1) The final trial day is the most anti-climatic thing ever. One testimony, one perceive, and that's it. Nothing else. It's just so... boring.
2) It feels like Apollo does jack for this entire trial. It's like he's just there. A bystander.


http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Headscratchers/ApolloJusticeAceAttorney
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fridge/ApolloJusticeAceAttorney

Alot of them can be sort of explained. A big thing seems to be the "time travelling" thing but what people just don't seem to get is that Phoenix suspected him at the beginning, not 7 years later. This can be shown when he says himself "was this payback for 7 years ago" and "this friendship was never pure", not to mention a bunch of other things like the most likely other person that be Vera's client was Shadi's former defense Attorney and that the very expensive nail polish was completely out of place in such a poor family.

Also I've read that just a day ago along with the "zak is a jerk" comic and alot of them can be quite easily explained. Also ironically, Apollo just the MOST work in 4-3...
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#32kwando1313Posted 10/5/2012 8:36:51 PM
But the thing still is, this is a lot more of this terribad plot holes that the earlier ones did not suffer as much from.

Also, 4-4's issues aren't just with plot holes, but also with the lack of pacing. I mean, the entire final trial was boring and pointless. They should've left us with some sort of mystery heading into there, but nope. It just was a single perceive and a 20 minute speech about why the law as is is bad.

And still, the TV Tropes page doesn't answer the following holes:
Why is Maya not with Phoenix during his time of crisis?
Still doesn't explain why Zak behaves the way he did in a non-"Zak Gramyere is a jerk" answer.
Still doesn't explain why Gumshoe acted so cocky.
Why did they use Thalassa as a live training dummy?
Still doesn't give a good explanation for why Nick could adopt Trucy. (I mean, a hidden envelope? I could just say that for almost every plot hole in every game!)
Vera's attempted kidnapping.
Zak destroying Nick's poker record.

I could go on, but most of the alleged "plot hole fixes" are exactly what the big list says not to do. Saying Zak is a jerk/sequel hook.
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#33Herr_EdgeworthPosted 10/5/2012 8:53:27 PM
Why is Maya not with Phoenix during his time of crisis?

Probably running rhe village. We're not told if Nick talked to her in that period but it's heavily implied since they're still in contact 7 years later.

Still doesn't explain why Zak behaves the way he did in a non-"Zak Gramyere is a jerk" answer.
Zak destroying Nick's poker record.

There's seriously no explanation other than him being a jerk. You're reading way too much into it. He probably planned to escape the trial because he knew that if he was declared not guilty, the fault would fall on Valant. As for the poker game, he's a competitive ass. You'd be surprised as to how many people are like that in real life.

Still doesn't explain why Gumshoe acted so cocky.

His development with Phoenix always seems to restart at the beginning of every game. This is nothing new. Maya even comments on it in 3-2.

Why did they use Thalassa as a live training dummy

Being the perfectionist and the ass he is, Magnifi would encourage his students to give it all on practices. He probably wanted to try the trick as it would be performed on stage.
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#34kwando1313Posted 10/5/2012 9:02:43 PM
(Note, I'm not trying to be a jerk here, just stating one of the reasons I don't like this case. >.<)

Anywho, the whole Zak is a jerk reason doesn't make any sense. I mean, his whole character just seems badly... thought out? I mean, at points, he does show compassion, like passing the Gramyere magic down to Trucy. Then, right after that, he attempts to destroy the person who is taking care of Trucy by trying to destroy his poker record. That's not just being a jerk. That's just poorly thought out character design. I mean, it makes absolutely no sense. You can't just hand wave that with him "being a jerk".
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#35ApolloJusticeAAPosted 10/5/2012 9:21:46 PM
Cerberus_Alpha posted...
Oh yeah MillaMac, did you manage to finish those cases I recommended in AAO?


No I didnt been too busy job hunting and school to actually sit down and take the cases seriously i was in the middle of turnabout substitution before i had to stop lucky for me things started looking better so hopefully i have a chance to finish the cases now. also I AM APOLLO JUSTICE!!!!!! XD lol
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Alt to Millamac: The Official Apollo Justice of all boards
#36Herr_EdgeworthPosted 10/5/2012 10:20:56 PM
Anywho, the whole Zak is a jerk reason doesn't make any sense. I mean, his whole character just seems badly... thought out?

I completely agree. He was a badly implemented character and that's why his actions can only be explained with "He's a jerk" at this point in time. He was badly written and never given reasons to act the way he does.
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#37ApolloJusticeAAPosted 10/5/2012 11:41:52 PM
Herr_Edgeworth posted...
Anywho, the whole Zak is a jerk reason doesn't make any sense. I mean, his whole character just seems badly... thought out?

I completely agree. He was a badly implemented character and that's why his actions can only be explained with "He's a jerk" at this point in time. He was badly written and never given reasons to act the way he does.


we all forget that zak only left because in his mind that page of the diary would have convinced the judge that his partner valant was the killer and whether he believed valant had done it or not he didnt want to be the one to put the final nail in his coffin in some ways zak wasnt a jerk just a well intentioned extremist
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Alt to Millamac: The Official Apollo Justice of all boards
#38Omega_Zero_XPPosted 10/6/2012 12:29:14 AM
I just started it as well. I dont have much of a problem with it. It's humorous, entertaining, and Im kinda liking Nick's new attitude (at least when the badassery that was 4-1 shows).

That's just me I guess.

...wait, there's throwback music in 4-4? cant wait!

Cause PW:AA's Cornered blaring at the end of T&T made me freak out. A lot.
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#39kwando1313Posted 10/6/2012 8:58:16 AM
Believe me, 4-1's a great case. 4-2's pretty good too. It's just.. 4-3 and 4-4 suffer from plotholeitis and badwritingitis and it's really unavoidable.
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#40Cerberus_AlphaPosted 10/7/2012 9:44:18 AM
ApolloJusticeAA posted...

No I didnt been too busy job hunting and school to actually sit down and take the cases seriously i was in the middle of turnabout substitution before i had to stop lucky for me things started looking better so hopefully i have a chance to finish the cases now. also I AM APOLLO JUSTICE!!!!!! XD lol


Oh well, nice to hear that your situation has improved lol, maybe it was actually a blessing in disguise, as most series seems to have come to a halt in AAO and will remain like that for a while according to the creators...

Too bad for you Apollo, Phoenix is back from the ashes now looking better than never with a brand new assistant so I don't think you will have your much needed character development, or the cliffhangers/plotholes from your game explained any time soon unfortunately.