Tier list

#1PrinceOfRavensPosted 2/8/2010 1:35:54 PM
I did a search for a tier list on the board, and I noticed that there's are a lot of controversy on where people should be placed for Wi-Fi. So how come there hasn't been a list that separates char. based on groups of... well, like a "Might" tier and a "Magic" tier.

So the Magic tier would be like (hypothetically)

Merric
Linde
Lena
(More people)
Wrys

and the Might tier would be

Catria
Frey
Est
(More people)
Bantu

Or whatever.

Point being, break apart the tier list into at least two different groups representing the Str part of the game and the Mag part. You could break it further into the different class groups.

---
Greedo: 'Jabba can't have a smuggler who dumps his cargo at the first sign of an Imperial cruiser.'
Han: 'Look, even I get bored sometimes.'
#2ImmuredPosted 2/8/2010 2:32:11 PM
Thanks to clock abuse, most any (non-promoted) character can fill any role. Once you pick the classes for your team, use the characters with the best supports and/or triangle attacking capabilities.

Top set A characters: Catria, Est, Palla (the sisters)
Top set B characters: Barst, Bord, Cord (the brothers)

Abel and Cain support the sisters as well as each other; Ogma supports the brothers and Navarre, and Caeda support Ogma (one-way). Therefore, the best combinations are:

A-B
5-0: 3x sisters, Abel, Cain
4-1: 3x sisters, [Ogma, Navarre] or [Abel/Cain/Frey, any B]
3-2: 3x sisters, 2x brothers
2-3: [3x brothers, Cain, Abel] or [2x brothers, Caeda, Navarre, Ogma]
1-4: 3x brothers, Navarre, Ogma
0-5: 3x brothers, Ogma, [any B]
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FESD: 3223 1279 0507
#3PrinceOfRavens(Topic Creator)Posted 2/8/2010 3:01:03 PM
I was thinking more of average stats. Supports would be great to integrate, but I don't think it's necessary because the only 'real' benefit would be critical, which dazzle takes care of...
No, I think it would have to be without factoring in clock abuse or supports.

---
Greedo: 'Jabba can't have a smuggler who dumps his cargo at the first sign of an Imperial cruiser.'
Han: 'Look, even I get bored sometimes.'
#4SylvanelitePosted 2/8/2010 3:48:20 PM
Some of my suggestions:

Linde top of magic tier. She is the only unit in the game who averages 20 mag. Merric averages 17. Merric's defence and HP growth don't make him any more durable than Linde when facing braves, so the MAG stat wins out.


For male set, I think the top three are (in this order)
Dolph
Caesar
Barst

Dolph is almost strictly superior to barst, with higher HP, speed and Strength growth rates. Their def is the same, Barst wins out on other stats, but these are far less significant and are almost ignorable.

Caesar has higher HP, Str and Speed growths that Barst, while slightly lower def. The point with Caesar is that he brings balance to a team. His high HP growth means he needs very few stat boosts, so he reclasses better than Barst does.

Barst is usable, but his low speed and strength growths make him a rather distant 3rd in my opinion. No matter how you train him up, he will always need boosts in all stats, making him hard to integrate.

Other units like Ogma and Cord have strong disadvantages, like poor speed growth and poor def growths respectively.

I don't use the other class sets very much. But I'd say units to look at would be Radd and Catria. With Catria being higher than Radd.
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Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon FC == 330883624286 In Memory of Roy
#5PrinceOfRavens(Topic Creator)Posted 2/8/2010 7:41:37 PM
Sylvan, I agree with a lot of what you say. However, Bart's def averages pretty low, and with Ceasar's lower growth, I doubt I'd be saving much on stat boosters. I've found that Barst comes out pretty well rounded and Ceasar drains alot of dracoshields and skillbooks. There's always reclassing, but... yeah, I understand what you're saying. I think also, that I'd have to bump Dolph down a little because of his poor skl and luck growths.

Of course, Barst is my third favorite char. in this game, so I'm a little biased.

As for the mages, I consider Merric and Linde to be equal because of Merric's other growths, but Merric has acess to Excalibur, which is more useful than Aura by a longshot.

Of course, Merric is my second favorite char. in this game, so I'm a little biased.

I also consider Frey better than Radd because of Frey's better hp, skl and spd growths. Radd has a much better str and def growth, but I think he'd wind up using a lot more of other boosters than Frey will. Frey also has a beard, so....

Of course, Frey is my favorite char. in this game, so I'm a little biased.

I could make a complete list and give all my reasons for placing each char where they are, but that would be tremendously time consuming. I think I'd much rather focus on the top 5 or so in each group. I also wonder if I should include char.s like Frey and Dolph in my Magic tier. After all, they have their own magic growth...

---
Greedo: 'Jabba can't have a smuggler who dumps his cargo at the first sign of an Imperial cruiser.'
Han: 'Look, even I get bored sometimes.'
#6GeradGerardPosted 2/8/2010 8:41:30 PM
well we could try starting up an actual one without factoring in clock abuse. RNG abuse might be able to be factored in cause it relied more on growths than Clocking does.

but anyways. Linde>Merric. if your making a sage. then Merric won't average enough def to stay alive and even if you reclass him then his mag will only get gimped. Linde's reaching enough mag and def on a sage isn't as important.
Sages have the option to Heal, Warp, Swarm, and Thoron if they can reach. 3/4 of which involves no enemy counterattack. yeah, they don't see much action. i've played a fair number of matches and most of the time my Sage is like second last to get killed.


another issue i would like to see about sages though. if whether extremely high mag is even needed? if we're assuming averages. then most units will not average above 15 res (including pure water boost). so even with 20 mag. they can reach 45 mt with thoron. thats still like half a units hp and still pretty beast. the only ones reaching <15 res also is only paladins and other sages.



we'd might have to seperate tiers for each Class Set and a Might vs Mag section.

like for Class A physical variants. , ima pretty sure it should something look like this.

Catria
Radd
Est
Palla
Frey
Cain
Abel

then for Class B

Dolph
Caesar
Barst
Cord
Ogma
Castor
Sedgar (reliably getting def not sure where in terms of the others)

then for Mag users

Merric earns best Levin SM.

and then Sage/Sorcerors

Linde
Merric
Elice (not sure but she has better growths than even Linde but that join time and being lvl 10 hurts her)
Caesar

Cord and Draug have too low of Hp to be useful.


and then Xane gets his own.



and then if you include supports.

then it would go

1. Catria
Est
Palla
Frey
Cain
Abel

2. Radd
Caesar

3. Barst
Cord
Ogma




most important stat for the physical variants is def. a triangle team can easily reach def. Frey would be better than Palla but his def is just so slightly lower that it makes a big defference. Radd is nice. he's kind of like Catria except with less spd. really nice though. and one of my favorite. Cain beats Abel because of luck. Dolph has bad supports but good raw stats. Barst and Cord share a similar problem but Barst's higher def makes up for it. i'm a little suprised with castor. He has better stats than Barst except in spd by 10. its a pretty big dif though. Sedgar i would say has more potential out there. his main problem is getting that spd and str if he goes beserker. but think about it. the two most easiest stats to cap are Str and Spd. esp spd. he can go HM and not have to worry about str as much.

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FE DS FC--- 0474-3303-5355 (Gerad=DS name)
Punchy! ;'( http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p37/geradgerard/InMemoryOfPunchy.jpg
#7SylvanelitePosted 2/8/2010 8:43:47 PM
How many times are luck and skill going to matter on wifi? Very few. basically zero if your using (or fighting) Dazzle.

The way caesar works, is by focusing on other units. Train Barst, Dolph and Caesar up all three the same. I just picked a random example of hunter->berserker, but this holds true for almost any system of levelling:

Dolph:
53HP 25STR 27SPD 14DEF
Caesar:
60HP 26STR 24SPD 12DEF
Barst:
50HP 23STR 22SPD 15DEF


Dolph needs: 1hp, 3str, 1speed, 3def == 8 boosts
Caesar needs: 2str, 2speed, 4def == 8 boosts
Barst needs: 2hp, 4str, 3speed, 3def == 12 boosts

Even if caesar is loaded to consume more boosts in one area, it's much better to be deficient in 1 stat by a lot, than deficient in all stats by a little. The reason being, you can accommodate around the stat with class growths.

For example, training Dolph as a general will make him use up less def boosts, but need more speed, str and hp. Which is fine, because Ceasar only needs def. However, this is not possible with Barst. No matter which was Barst is trained, he will be needing across the board stat boosts, which means training Dolph as a general won't work. This hurts the whole team.

Only reason I say Radd is because of his high def growth. Out of that class set, there are plenty of units that have high speed growth, but very few that have high def growth. Again, it's a balancing act. Radd is useful because he mostly consumes speed boosts, as opposed to most characters in that group which consume def boosts. Radd can be class swapped to either desire def or speed boosts. Where as frey will always want def boosts.

I think basically the only other person in that class set who can do this is palla, who is almost strictly worse than radd. (ignoring triangle attack)
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Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon FC == 330883624286 In Memory of Roy
#8GeradGerardPosted 2/8/2010 9:37:54 PM
i feel so compelled to make one. and have people debate over it.
including Class A and Class B is kind of hard though. the mid section is a bit disorganized. i kinda just put peoples names in where they should be but didn't change order that much.


Top Tier:
Catria
Radd
Dolph

High Tier:
Caesar
Barst
Est
Palla
Frey
Cain
Abel
Linde
Merric

Upper-Mid Tier:
Ogma
Cord
Draug
Sedgar
Hardin
Caeda
Norne
Gordon
Castor
Navarre
Bord
Wolf
Athena
Roger
Elice

Xane Tier:
Xane

Lower-Mid Tier:
Jake
Beck
Tomas
Macellan
Roshea
Vyland
Matthis
Darros
Jeorge
Lena
Wendell
Minerva
Tiki
Nagi

Low Tier:
Wyrs
Julian
Etzel
Ymir
Maria
Boah
Horace
Samson
Arran
Gotoh

Est Tier:
Rickard
Lorenz
Marth
Jagen
Bantu


---
FE DS FC--- 0474-3303-5355 (Gerad=DS name)
Punchy! ;'( http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p37/geradgerard/InMemoryOfPunchy.jpg
#9SylvanelitePosted 2/8/2010 10:23:22 PM
Just looking at the top few on the list. You can probably make a non-RNG abused team with no flaws using the top 4 characters + sage. However, swapping in people below that does introduce possible flaws. So I think that's a pretty good top tier so far. I would personally make the top tier 4 characters, simply because that's what you would normally find on a team.

I'm half inclined to make that team, see what it comes out like. You could use 2 horsemen, a swordmaster, sniper and sage.

Draug should be much lower. His strength and def growth are way too low.

I'd put the upper mid tier to go:
Sedgar
Cord
Ogma

Sedgar will beat out ogma in def growth, and their speed usually ends up the same. Cord is hard to get enough HP/strength on.

Bord should be close to the bottom. Even in his highest speed class, he is pretty much going to be doubled by generals.

I would put Athena next to Nabarl and bump the ballistae to just below Nabarl

Castor should be below that, and I'd say break the tier there. (where bord is currently) Everyone below that is pretty much unusable. Except for maybe Elice she could be on the bottom of that grouping.

The rest I'm not going to look at in detail. They suck. That's all we need to know.

Gordin can also serve to loose a few ranks.

Here is my suggestion:



Top Tier:
Catria
Radd
Dolph
Caesar

High Tier:
Barst
Est
Palla
Frey
Cain
Abel
Linde
Merric

Upper-Mid Tier:
Sedgar
Cord
Ogma
Hardin
Caeda
Athena
Navarre
Jake
Elice
Beck

Lower-Mid Tier:
Wolf
Norne
Draug
Gordon
Castor
Bord
Roger
Tomas
Macellan
Roshea
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Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon FC == 330883624286 In Memory of Roy
#10PrinceOfRavens(Topic Creator)Posted 2/9/2010 6:07:26 AM
Ok. In no particular order:

1. Linde drains your boosts if you want max spd and skl.
2. Merric still has Excalibur.
3. Elice isn't that good.
4. Ogma's better than Cord
5. Since Matthias gets huge HP, str and def, does that make him good? He only uses all of your speedwings and skillbooks, but you save on shields and robes and drops.
6. Noooos! Barst! D| *sigh* ok...
7. I'd much rather have a char. that takes one of every booster than have one that takes all of one.
8. I can't believe Castor's in a tier list...


Ok. New idea. Rather than judging a char based on their growths, why doesn't someone take a char.'s base growths and [convert them to what they would be at max level or 20/20 or whatever comes first]. Then add up the stats (minus skl and luck) and separate the char.'s based on the amount you get. Then separate further for overall stat-booster-using-ness. And then (if you wanted to) make another list that included that slk and lck, just in case someone wanted to play without dazzle.

Ermmm... or something like that.

---
Greedo: 'Jabba can't have a smuggler who dumps his cargo at the first sign of an Imperial cruiser.'
Han: 'Look, even I get bored sometimes.'