the next deus ex

#1ur_highkingPosted 5/8/2012 9:30:29 PM
Changes Id like to possibly see in the next Deus Ex game would be:

- creating ur own Augmented character[looks, body type, gender ect]

- easier to level up like u get more prixis kits then u do in this game allowing u to get more upgrades over all

- longer game :P

- more futuristic augments then just cloaking system, fall from any height and not die, see through walls, and typhoon system

- better vocal actors for the main character [because they have no emotions( excited, anger, sad ect when talking its all 1 lvl in their voice ) so a better actor would be nice]


other then these i pretty much thought the game was pretty solid/overall a good game
#2JC_PhoenixPosted 5/8/2012 11:01:04 PM(edited)
"- better vocal actors for the main character [because they have no emotions( excited, anger, sad ect when talking its all 1 lvl in their voice ) so a better actor would be nice]"


They did that with Invisible War and ended up with the player seeming like a unlikable douche no matter what you do... though part of it might have been the silly hair... At least there was always the female.

The monotone in Deus Ex 1 was actually an intentional way of making the player more immersed. he would say things in a droll serious monotone, and the player would establish their own feelings/emotions behind the actions. Worked pretty well in my opinion.
Not sure if it was an intentional attempt in HR or not, doesn't work as well in HR because a lot of Adam's dialogue, actions, and motivations are emotionally charged, and dramatic... or at least trying to be.

Kind of like:

Bad guy: "I killed your wife!"

JC's reaction: (Monotone) "Oh, really?"
Adam's reaction: (monotone) "You BASTARD!!!"

Gotta go to sleep now, so can't really comment on the others, but all but one of those was attempted in Invisible War and didn't turn out very good. Also if things are very futuristic it better be set in nanotech time.
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#3tcchip82Posted 5/9/2012 4:42:43 AM
I like what the games have done so far, but I'd like a larger, more immersive world instead of being limited to two city blocks with two merchants. It doesn't have to be Grand Theft Auto or even Mass Effect style, but as much as they've managed to make a lived-in world in this game, it would have been nicer to give your more room to explore instead of throwing in more set pieces.
#4IdTheDemonPosted 5/9/2012 5:25:25 AM
I definitely want to see another game with the HR tone and music.

As for specifics, I'd love to see:

Better voice acting

More hubs. Detroit was cool and Hengsha was AMAZING but it kills me that Pengu and Montreal were cut.

A talent tree system could work. Nothing deep, just maybe a bunch of 3 level trees with a fancy ability in the end.
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#5NoobzorLoLoLoLPosted 5/9/2012 8:54:59 AM
easier to level up like u get more prixis kits then u do in this game allowing u to get more upgrades over all

If you are thorough and you play by the game's rules, you should have no trouble with this in Human Revolution. Playing by the game's rules means staying stealthy wherever possible, hacking everything, and exploring everywhere. These aren't hard-line rules in the normal sense, but they are what the game encourages through its XP reward system. If you play by the rules, you should be able to get all of the really useful upgrades by around the halfway point.

I think the real issue here, and this is one that's been pointed out hundreds of times, is that the game does not truly promote all playstyles equally. A stealth takedown giving five times more XP than shooting the guy in the chest is not encouraging players to "play as they want." I'm guessing you played the game in a less-than-optimal way, TC, in which case, yes, a game that claims to be all about playing how you want should accommodate you just as it does stealth players. The solution, though, isn't just adding more Praxis kits, because then the people who play it stealthily will have an even easier time of it than they already do.

Any future games should endeavor to find a way to make stealth play have its XP disadvantages. An example would be to keep the "ghost" bonus, but to remove all stealth bonuses from takedowns and kills. Meanwhile, make certain enemies (IE, robots) impossible to kill without losing the Ghost bonus. This way, someone playing more aggressively can kill the robots to make up for the XP they lose out on by not getting the ghost bonus. The key is to make some XP rewards mutually exclusive so that stealth can't just get everything and thus be the end-all, be-all best playstyle.

Or, you know, they could just go back the to original DX's system where XP was only awarded for accomplishing objectives and exploring, and augmentations used a separate currency that was only ever found in the world or bought/given as a quest reward. That'd work, too.
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#6joefitts63Posted 5/9/2012 1:25:10 PM
Giving XP for kills/takedowns was a poor design choice. Even if you are playing all-out stealth, you are far better off taking everyone down rather than just passing them by.
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#7NoobzorLoLoLoLPosted 5/9/2012 2:17:30 PM(edited)
You're absolutely right, of course, about stealth players having incentive to engage enemies. I'm not sure the solution would be to remove XP rewards from enemies, though. I think a better answer would be to offer an additional reward for accomplishing an objective without killing or knocking out anyone that would be commensurate with the reward you would have gotten from taking down every enemy. Couple this with the proposed change wherein they add certain enemies that can't be eliminated without ruining "Ghost," and you would have a system that rewards all three playstyles: guns blazing, stealth while taking down enemies, and stealth while avoiding enemies.

Edit:
They pretty much have to give XP for each kill or knock-out if they're going to make guns-blazing an equally-rewarding playstyle. Since stealthy play will be rewarded with bonuses at the end of missions, combat-oriented players have to make up the difference somewhere. The only alternative to this is if they just go back to the original DX's system of just giving everyone a lump sum of XP at the end of the level, which I'm not against, but I can understand the desire for a more constant reward system. It feels good to earn XP, even in little chunks.

With that in mind, another potential system that might encourage a bit more hybrid stealth gameplay is the possibility of, rather than one big bonus at the end, they broke down Ghost and any other stealth bonuses and distributed them through a series of checkpoints. Think of it broken down by rooms - for each subsequent room you get through without getting in a fight, you get a bit of XP. Of course, to balance this out with combat, they'd have to invalidate the XP rewards you would get if you turned around and went back to kill every guard in the last room after getting the next stealth bonus, but that should be a simple matter.
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#8TazmanianDPosted 5/9/2012 4:04:35 PM
One of the ideas that I've been knocking about my head is allowing the user to choose a game setting that changes how XP is awarded. If you want to play as an action character, you could get XP for kills but not for ghosting a level. Or if you want to ghost (in the Thief definition where you don't kill or knock out anyone), you get points for not knocking anyone out. Or for stealth, you get points for knockouts but not kills and none for ghosting.

I don't think I've ever seen a game do something like this but it seems to me to be the best way to give a player what he wants. I like being constrained by rules and having to work at optimizing my way through the rules. Being allowed to just do anything I want at the moment is less rewarding.
#9TazmanianDPosted 5/9/2012 4:06:55 PM
ur_highking posted...
easier to level up like u get more prixis kits then u do in this game allowing u to get more upgrades over all

I think I have to disagree with this one. I thought it was too easy to get Praxis points. It's pretty difficult but it's actually possible to get enough Praxis points to acquire *every* augmentation upgrade in the game. I prefer games were you really have to make a tradeoff between the things you want and don't want.
#10NoobzorLoLoLoLPosted 5/9/2012 5:01:36 PM
TazmanianD posted...
One of the ideas that I've been knocking about my head is allowing the user to choose a game setting that changes how XP is awarded...

I'm not really seeing the advantage this has over just making each playstyle rewarding, but in mutually exclusive ways so that players can't game the system and get more rewards by accomplishing the objectives of more than one different style. Meanwhile, I see a significant downside - this would be a huge immersion breaker. To have to constantly think "am I playing by the rule-set I chose for myself?" takes you out of the game to such an explicit extent that I don't think I could ever approve this system.

I can only see two ways this works out:
1) You allow the player to pick their rules at the start of the game or before each mission. In this case, the ability to predetermine how XP was awarded would either make shifting your playstyle mid-mission/game almost impossible, as you would begin encountering the exact same sort of dissonance you currently encounter while playing with a "guns-blazing," or other sub-optimal playstyle. When I'm just playing a game, not trying to accomplish any goal in particular, and letting myself roll with the character, I often find myself changing how I play in reaction to ongoing events. I may start out trying to avoid lethal force, for instance, but then I may read an email that reveals that these guys I'm making so much of an effort to save totally aren't worth it. At that point, I would want to switch my rules of engagement, and any outside system that prohibits me from doing it is just going to remind me that the reward system is something that exists outside the story, hence breaking immersion.

2) You allow the player to pick their rules at-will, anywhere. Not only would this system be ridiculously easy to game (whoops, I got spotted, time to make killing guys worth lots of XP), but it again takes us outside of the game's world whenever we want to do this. The player can now adapt to changing circumstances, but to do so they must not only be reminded of the meta-game system influencing their experience gain, but they must manually interact with it, likely ruining the moment. "Oh my god, I can't believe these ******s are doing this! I'm going to clean this place out! Just... after... change settings to... okay, let's do this!"


The only way I can see such a system really working is if you put it in the game, using conversations like Sarif's "rules of engagement" chat prior to sending you into the factory in Human Revolution. If your character makes a promise in the game to abide by a certain set of rules, then when the player hits the dilemma of having to decide whether to stick to those rules or not he isn't necessarily brought out of the game, as his thoughts don't go to the menu screen where he made this choice, but the character he made a promise to.

The issue here, though, becomes one of practicality. If you only ever get to make this decision once, then I'd argue it's probably not worth the price of leaving a character unable to change their playstyle for the rest of the game. If you do it more than once, then it likely becomes needlessly rigid for your storywriters, who now have to work all of those conversations into the game, and who have to be incredibly mindful of how they present information mid-mission that might encourage players to go back on their word.

It's an interesting idea, but I think the problems it presents are more than its worth when you can get the same benefit from just smartly designing the XP system to provide mutually exclusive rewards for different playstyles, or by just giving flat XP bonuses for completing objectives and exploring ala the first Deus Ex.
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The sole purpose of this Sig is to taunt Orcus.