Why could I not diffuse the fight between Tali and Legion?

#1sar8421Posted 8/2/2011 8:49:24 AM
I have maxed out my renegade meter yet the option was grayed out when the fight happened. Did I just get seriously screwed over, or is this a known glitch? I would've liked to have kept all my squad members alive during the suicide mission.
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If dreams are like movies, then memories are films about ghosts.
#2GorybobcatPosted 8/2/2011 8:53:49 AM
Persuasion in me2 is based on a ratio of the total amount of possible renegade points you could've gotten versus how many you have, not on how high the bar has been filled. Filling up the renegade bar and not staying strictly renegade can cause you to miss out on some persuasion options.
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#3sar8421(Topic Creator)Posted 8/2/2011 8:59:18 AM
Hmm, so I guess I got the ratio too low when I got 20 paragon points for choosing to keep Legion on my team. I love this game, but sometimes it's just ****ing stupid.
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If dreams are like movies, then memories are films about ghosts.
#4Achernar135Posted 8/2/2011 9:11:57 AM(edited)
Ragent14 posted...
Hmm, so I guess I got the ratio too low when I got 20 paragon points for choosing to keep Legion on my team..

Maybe. You have no way of knowing if that would've been enough.

In any event, the Tali/Legion fight is stacked against full-Renegades. You only need a moderate amount of Paragon to charm them, but you need a lot of Renegade to intimidate them.

Try siding with Tali and making up with Legion afterward. I hear Legion is really easy to make up with. And even if you don't retain both loyalties, you can still get everyone through the Suicide Mission alive quite easily. One non-loyalty isn't a big deal.
#5sar8421(Topic Creator)Posted 8/2/2011 9:11:50 AM
Yeah, I was able to make up with Legion. It just seems odd how that interaction was designed.,
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If dreams are like movies, then memories are films about ghosts.
#6NickiousPosted 8/2/2011 6:34:58 PM

Achernar135 posted...
Ragent14 posted...
Hmm, so I guess I got the ratio too low when I got 20 paragon points for choosing to keep Legion on my team..

Maybe. You have no way of knowing if that would've been enough.

In any event, the Tali/Legion fight is stacked against full-Renegades. You only need a moderate amount of Paragon to charm them, but you need a lot of Renegade to intimidate them.

Try siding with Tali and making up with Legion afterward. I hear Legion is really easy to make up with. And even if you don't retain both loyalties, you can still get everyone through the Suicide Mission alive quite easily. One non-loyalty isn't a big deal.


Speaking of a similar situation, does that same principle apply to the Miranda and Jack Fight as well? Where I have a full paragon bar but also have quite a bit of renegade points.

#7BPac21Posted 8/2/2011 7:10:10 PM
Diffusing Miranda and Jack's fight requires a higher paragon and lower renegade, as they are both 'renegades' (Miranda's in Cerby, Jack is... Jack)
Diffusing Tali and Legion's fight requires a higher renegade and lower paragon, as they are both 'paragons' (Legion is an orthodox geth and Tali is just inherently paragon)
I wasn't able to diffuse the M/J argument the first time through, I sided with Jack and was able to get Miranda's loyalty back after doing some more missions.
I've been able to diffuse it in subsequent playthroughs, I'm making a Renegon after I finish insanity, though, so I dunno how that'll turn out.
#8PensatoPosted 8/2/2011 7:30:00 PM
BPac21 posted...
Diffusing Miranda and Jack's fight requires a higher paragon and lower renegade, as they are both 'renegades' (Miranda's in Cerby, Jack is... Jack)
Diffusing Tali and Legion's fight requires a higher renegade and lower paragon, as they are both 'paragons' (Legion is an orthodox geth and Tali is just inherently paragon)
I wasn't able to diffuse the M/J argument the first time through, I sided with Jack and was able to get Miranda's loyalty back after doing some more missions.
I've been able to diffuse it in subsequent playthroughs, I'm making a Renegon after I finish insanity, though, so I dunno how that'll turn out.



That's incorrect. You just need high enough Renegade or Paragon so you can select one of the two options. If you've been splitting up your Renegade and Paragon points than you may not have high enough in either one to do so.


"In order to placate both squad members, it is necessary to choose a Paragon or Renegade conversation option. If Shepard does not have enough Paragon or Renegade points, the options will be grayed out, forcing a choice between the two squad members. (There is disagreement whether an almost full Paragon/Renegade bar is required, or if the required points are scaled to Shepard's level and/or game progress. The safest solution is to save one of the pairs loyalty mission to near the end of the game, where one has accrued sufficient points to fill the Paragon/Renegade bar.)

It is possible to regain the lost loyalty of a squad member with another Paragon or Renegade test later. However, the team member whom Shepard does not support will no longer respond to romantic overtures, even if their loyalty is later regained. Losing the loyalty of one of the team members will not result in the loss of their alternate outfit or special power, nor the Commander's access to it through the "Advanced Training" research project. "

From the ME2 wiki (and several FAQ's) http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Loyalty

As for the disagreement part, I've never had almost full Paragon or Renegade on my respective playthroughs and have still always been able to chose the corresponding conversation option.
#9BPac21Posted 8/2/2011 7:44:46 PM
Pensato posted...
That's incorrect. You just need high enough Renegade or Paragon so you can select one of the two options. If you've been splitting up your Renegade and Paragon points than you may not have high enough in either one to do so.

This is true. Not quite what I'm saying though.
The ability to charm/intimidate is based on the ratio of how much paragon/renegade you have to that you can possibly have. The ratio for renegade doesn't need to be as high as the ratio for paragon would need to be to be able to resolve the Jack/Miranda argument, and vice versa with Tali/Legion.
Did you perhaps misunderstand that I was saying that one needs to have a high paragon AND low renegade?
#10PensatoPosted 8/2/2011 7:55:07 PM
BPac21 posted...
Did you perhaps misunderstand that I was saying that one needs to have a high paragon AND low renegade?

Yeah I read it as you were saying a person could only chose to defuse one or the other based on what aliment they chose.

I didn't have any issues because I chose to do only paragon or renegade actions for each respective character. So the only points I got in the opposite aliment where just the mandatory ones you get.